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I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

jeffgeerling.com

671–680 of 683 posts

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#671
post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are misreading? > $17k minus an extra $2k added to my Camry's trade-in value This says the dealer paid a premium for the Camry to secure the deal on the Leaf. The Camry's full trade-in value was not given.

Right, my initial statement applies: it's not "just $11k", it's a lot more.

[deleted]

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#672
post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are misreading? > $17k minus an extra $2k added to my Camry's trade-in value This says the dealer paid a premium for the Camry to secure the deal on the Leaf. The Camry's full trade-in value was not given.

Right, my initial statement applies: it's not "just $11k", it's a lot more.

How I read it, the deal could have been something like $5k (+$2k) for the trade-in car and $10k in cash. Later there is a $4k used EV tax rebate.

In this situation the cost works out to something like

5k + 10k - 4k = 11k

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But even rich people need to shield them from ceo killers, use incredibly bad infrastructure, etc. CEO killers are not a result of inequality. The only recent example of a CEO killer was a result of being the head of a health insurance company and the motivation was not his comp. Bad infrastructure is also not a good example. That’s just a result of gov choices on spending. At least in the US, pulling levers on taxi…

Infrastructure was an example of a common good that rich and poor people use alike - not something that necessarily is fixed with equality. Thinking about taxes in terms of producing revenue completely misses the point. Taxes in this context is a tool for increasing equality. As for the ceo killings, if not the US increases equality, we will likely only see more of that behavior going forward.

The ceo killing was not a result of inequality. Both the assailant and the CEO were rich and the motivation was entirely the nature of health insurance as an industry.

So given that the only recent CEO killing was not a result of inequality, what evidence do you have to support the notion than increased inequality would increase CEO killings?

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that both J1772 & CCS2 are 100% universal in Europe is huge. Funnily enough, not for the Leaf! Though it will be on the third generation that's coming out this year. The second-gen Leaf (a ten year old design, at this point) that the author of the article bought doesn't have it. The EU only mandates CCS2 in _charging points_; manufacturers can still sell cars without it, though I think Nissan may be the on…

I was more referring to J1772. We don't have NACS in Europe so if you have J1772 you can always charge anywhere. This does mean Jeff's Leaf would be limited to AC without an adapter, which isn't perfectly ideal, but still better.

The form factor of NACS is the old Tesla plug from before the EU mandated Tesla switch to CCS2. So there is still some "NACS" in Europe, kind of, but it is mostly phased out I hear.

In North America it's attempt at a CCS plug was awful and ugly and so much worse than CCS2 and made J17772 almost look preferable. The marketplace winner (by almost a landslide) was Tesla's plug and NACS is CCS protocols over Tesla plugs. All of the car companies at this point are mostly agreed that NACS is the present and future in North America.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#675

> Lack of standards: For 'L3' DC Fast Charging, the Leaf has a CHAdeMO port. Teslas and many newer EVs have NACS. Then there's CCS1 and CCS2. And charging stations are run by multiple vendors with multiple apps and payment methods. It's not like gas stations, like with Shell, BP, Buckee's, etc. where you just drive up, stick the gas nozzle in your tank, and squeeze. Afaik in Europe, CCS2 is the standard (and mandator…

Anyone who follows Jeff will know he's US-based, but I still really felt he could've highlighted that fact more in that charging port standards section. The fact that both J1772 & CCS2 are 100% universal in Europe is huge. So much so even Tesla switched to CCS2. This doesn't help Jeff but certainly one less problem for many readers of his article.

Yeah, the US is in the slow market-based processes of standardizing towards NACS (which is CCS2 protocols over what used to be just Tesla's plug). It's not as standard as the EU has committed to, but with Tesla's charging network having a big first mover advantage in North America, it sometimes feels close.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a lack of standards, it was an early proliferation of standards. Chademo is still standard in Japan. Also, given his comparison to the ease of the old way, in Europe at least it's fairly standard to know someone who has filled their hire car with diesel (or not diesel) by mistake. They have warning stickers on the filler flap because it happens so often. Meanwhile knowing someone who uses the inexplicably mo…

A big difference is that if you go to a gas station you’ll have both (and possibly more). At least in Europe. So while you need to fill with the right fuel unless the pump is broken or the tanks are empty the fuel you need will be available. In the US, if you roll up to a random charging station you may or may not find a plug matching your car’s port.

NACS should help change that eventually (hopefully on the sooner side of eventually), as it wins the marketplace and chargers get slowly updated.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could also have bought a used Chevy Bolt in this price range, with CCS, ~250mi range, and CarPlay.

For some reason when I charge at public chargers a very common vehicle next to me are those Chevy Bolts. If you’ve never compared them side by side you will be surprised, the Leaf is a MUCH nicer car, the Bolts just look way cheaper and lower quality vehicles. I also don’t get this CCS drama, I have yet to come across an actual fast charger station that doesn’t have CHAdeMO in addition to the CCS connection. Maybe in…

The 2026 Bolt moving to the Ultium platform may also improve some of the interior quality (because the battery platform will be cheaper again). It is probably a couple months still before we can easily test drive one to get a good feel, but I am curious to see what they do with the new model, especially because GM is especially returning it to be their cheapest EV.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The sale qualifies only if: > You buy the vehicle from a dealer. This is such an annoying part of the tax incentive. It's a huge, pointless gift to car dealers (who need no help) because it means they don't have to compete for price with private sellers or buyers. If I have a used EV to sell, I basically have to sell to the dealer because no buyer wants to bother buying from me when they can get the same thing from…

KeySavvy is the normal workaround for this. $99 extra cost to both sides for them to handle the title verification and shipping, and to act as the dealer to make it qualify for EV credits.

Wow, great tip! Thanks!

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This shouldn't really big a big deal in most metro areas, at least. The car dealer doesn't have a big tank of gasoline on site, either, they just drive the car to the station and fill it up while you're signing the papers. They could just drive to the local fast charger with the EV and do exactly the same thing.

> This shouldn't really big a big deal in most metro areas Not sure which areas you're referring to but in the Northeast EV infrastructure around the metro areas is not the best. In my experience, I would have to plan out my stops if I was driving between Philly and NYC if I didn't have a 90+% charge and even then I would be worried that there would be a line or chargers would be out of order. Taking a look at an EV…

> there's only half a dozen stations around NYC with 100+ kW chargers

That seems low. Even looking only at Tesla Superchargers, there are something like a dozen just right around NYC itself. Not including EA or any other providers.

Heck, even sleeping Portland, Oregon has 10 Tesla Superchargers in the metro area.

Re: I bought the cheapest EV, a used Nissan Leaf

#680

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, America exported our car-privileging planning and policies, so those places that accepted our "expertise" buffed car travel as much as possible - traffic catches up, of course, but that's when the nerfs to public transit come in. It can be a number of strategies come to bear, including poor access to transit nodes, long wait times between service, and disruptions (American trains often have to wait for…

It took me 10 minutes to get from Liverpool Station to Paddington via the Elizabeth Line. Last year, I took a taxi, as the Line was on strike. That took maybe 30 minutes, or maybe the driver was just driving aimlessly around to push up the bill. The London subway system is just wonderful.

The newer parts aren't all that bad. It's taken a while for us to catch up with other cities with properly functioning trains, for example...
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