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We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

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Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#671

Post by humodz »

sokoloff wrote: post #655
kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

> I called their support line for a lost card, and had to go through to second level support because I didn't have the app. What’s the alternative? The bank sending out a debit card to anyone who calls up and says “I’m @kristov, trust me…” You were not able to served by the standard path, because you couldn’t authenticate yourself via the standard mechanism. You still got service by an alternate path. No different fr…

Off the top of my head: going in-person to the bank, email, phone call or sms to a number that you previously informed to the bank (say when opening the account), otp a la authy or aegis. None of these require you to be on google or apple's walled garden.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#672

Post by xandrius »

crazygringo wrote: post #103
danpalmer wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Companies aren't obligated to support me doing this Where does one draw the line on support? If I jailbreak an iPhone, should I still get Apple customer support for the apps on it, even though they may have been manipulated by some aspect of the jailbreak? (Very real problem, easy to cause crashes in other apps when you mess around with root access) Should I still get a battery replacement within warranty from Appl…

The line is definitely crossed if you jailbreak your phone. It seems pretty clear. Either you're using the device as the manufacturer intended or not. If I take a device rated for 2m of water down scuba diving to 25m, it voids my warranty too.

But that's no the point here, a more similar point is to have the scuba diving manufacturer imposing which body of water you can use the device in.

And if you decide to give the device a try in your own swimming pool or a random spot you'd like to explore, the device won't work and you might be banned from using it elsewhere. Would that make any sense?

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#673

Post by jader201 »

Nextgrid wrote: post #660
dataflow wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you make an argument as to how this is different from having to have an account with, say, your ISP?

You have many ISPs to choose from. There are not many "Googles" nor "Apples" to choose from.

Depending on where you live, a lot of times you don’t many to choose from. Maybe 2-3, but sometimes only one with fast enough speeds that it becomes the only option.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#674

Post by xandrius »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #668

Programmers make the same Faustian bargain with all these "safe" languages. No, please, don't let me touch memory! It's too dangerous. Give me a nice bubble wrapped playpen to "program" in.

What a weird take, here we're discussing fighting the duopoly and hegemony of 2 US companies dictating what and how to use our own devices.

Complaining about programming languages which allow me not to think of malloc bugs when making something not critical makes no sense whatsoever.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#675

Post by richrichardsson »

sokoloff wrote: post #655
kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

> I called their support line for a lost card, and had to go through to second level support because I didn't have the app. What’s the alternative? The bank sending out a debit card to anyone who calls up and says “I’m @kristov, trust me…” You were not able to served by the standard path, because you couldn’t authenticate yourself via the standard mechanism. You still got service by an alternate path. No different fr…

> opting out of the airport scanner

slightly OT, but where can you opt out of the scanner?

Every time I've tried they told me I won't be allowed through security unless I subject myself to the scanner, despite me protesting that they can search me however else they please.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#676

Post by GoblinSlayer »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #593
wvh wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I like about your comment is that it points out that all technical work-arounds are moot if people as a whole are not willing to stand up with pitchforks and torches to defend their freedoms. It will always come down to that. A handful of tech-savvy users with rooted devices and open-source software will not make a difference to the giant crushing machine that is the system. And I'm afraid most of us are part of…

> A handful of tech-savvy users with rooted devices and open-source software will not make a difference to the giant crushing machine that is the system. Agreed, although I don't think that's entirely true, its just that post-smartphones we no longer have any political agency over a significant volume of the new traffic. Much of the new traffic represents that faction of people who initially mocked the internet as "n…

On Android they do enjoy the freedoms and fall for "side load this random app ignoring warnings" scam.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#677

Post by bluesign »

kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

I think it is kind of levels:

"can't participate in society without a mobile phone" "can't participate in society without internet" "can't participate in society without google"

not sure where is the logical correct threshold making it wrong. because we all accept maybe people not participating without internet.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#678

Post by xandrius »

notatoad wrote: post #69

The inevitable conclusion of this battle is an acknowledgment that you never really own an iPhone or android in the first place, and the companies stop selling the hardware at all. You’ll only be able to rent a device as part of your service plan.

Or stop treating Android as Linux for mobile but rather Windows for mobile and finally start pushing and supporting a 3rd major alternative like we have on desktop/laptops.

I would personally love to start contributing to a truly open alternative which doesn't rely on Google being not evil anymore.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#679

Post by GoblinSlayer »

p1esk wrote: post #644
camgunz wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What I like about your comment is that it points out that all technical work-arounds are moot if people as a whole are not willing to stand up with pitchforks and torches to defend their freedoms. If your system requires extraordinary political efforts from large numbers of people, your system will fail. We are the elites, we have to oppose this. If Netflix asks us to implement this kind of DRM, we have to resign.…

We are the elites Wait, what?

Different kind of elites.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#680

Post by GeekyBear »

Aachen wrote: post #533
GeekyBear wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What worries me is that Google has a fairly legit argument to say "then Apple should as well". Not a legal argument, since Apple never claimed the iPhone was anything else but a walled garden, and walled gardens are legal as long as you are clear that users will be buying into a walled garden from the start. (For example: Nintendo, PlayStation and Xbox) Legally, the only thing you could do is change the law to make…

That argument would only last as long as current Android devices are supported for. In seven years, the last devices will run out of support and we'd be back to square one Legislation, as you say, seems like it'll be necessary :/

It's about the lifespan of the platform, not the lifespan of a device.

When you chose to create an open platform with multiple participants, you are creating a new open market where antitrust laws will apply... even to you as the platform creator.

Microsoft, for example, was found guilty of antitrust in the personal computer market long after the original computers running Windows were gone.

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