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Wikipedia loses challenge against Online Safety Act

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Re: Wikipedia loses challenge against Online Safety Act

#671
post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not working. A few decades later the biggest party is like 50% of the politicians. My theory is that power accumulates like money so you end up having few people with all the power. It's not that original, I must've read it somewhere.

Denmark, Sweden and Netherlands have the same system and it works reasonably well actually.

The same Denmark whose representative is in the EU council is championing for similar laws?

Re: Wikipedia loses challenge against Online Safety Act

#672
post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Someone in the UK starting their own censored Wikipedia would be a good thing in the long and short run. I’m seeing that playing out with a Russian Wikipedia (forked as Ruwiki and heavily edited to be in line with Kremlin propaganda), and I don’t like it one bit. There’s not much you can do as it’s free/open content, but it still sucks.

Reminds me of Conservapedia, which was a Wikipedia fork with everything that the US religious right disliked removed.

Present tense; it’s still around. Near the top of their list of popular articles is “Counterexamples to Relativity” which gives a good flavor of what it’s all about.

Re: Wikipedia loses challenge against Online Safety Act

#674
post #154

One of the most interesting things about this legislation is where it comes from. Primarily it was drafted and lobbied for by William Perrin OBE and Prof Lorna Woods at Carnegie UK[1], billed as an “independent foundation”. William Perrin is also the founder of Ofcom. So he’s been using the foundation’s money to lobby for the expansion of his unelected quango. It has also been suggested that one of the largest benefi…

So you’re saying that someone who worked in government on online regulation has carried on that interest outside at a charitable foundation and has had some influence in drafting this legislation?

Not that surprising really is it? And all that is advertised on the individual’s bio online.

The only dubious thing you allude to are ‘financial ties’ to Yoti which are completely unsubstantiated. In fact I took the trouble of looking at the Carnegie Foundation’s accounts [1] and for the last two years at least they have had virtually no donor income at all so they are certainly not being funded by Yoti. Perhaps you would like to be more specific about these ties?

I don’t like this legislation much but creating a controversy when there isn’t one isn’t going to get it changed.

Edit: Just to add that the Carnegie Foundation seems to be about as independent and transparent as you can get which might be why it’s been influential. If you don’t think Google, Meta et all have all been lobbying furiously behind the scenes then I don’t know what to say.

Happy to take downvotes for calling out a fake conspiracy theory (‘there’s something going on’).

[1] https://carnegieuk.org/publication/annual-report-and-account...

Re: Wikipedia loses challenge against Online Safety Act

#675
post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>2. The next government will take great delight in removing this law as an easy win. As a rule of thumb, governments don't take actions which reduce their power.

They do if they are libertarian governments. Although it's popular to pretend they don't exist, there are plenty of examples of governments reducing their power over history. The American government is a good example of this having originally bound itself by a constitution that limits its own power. And Britain has in the past gone through deregulatory phases and shrunk the state. Unfortunately at this time Britain d…

> The American government is a good example of this having originally bound itself by a constitution that limits its own power.

This is not an example for an existing government reducing its power. It's rather an example of revolutionaries recognizing this very problem and attempting to prevent it. As we have found out since then, their solution isn't as foolproof as they had hoped.

Re: Wikipedia loses challenge against Online Safety Act

#676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Even in the USA, the Supreme Court doesn't act on hypotheticals. Yes. To rephrase it, they cannot act until it's already too late, and the damage has already been done.And we wonder why things are so broken.

What alternative would you propose? How much additional workload would it create for the court system and how would you manage it considering their existing responsibilities?

I'd propose that Parliament bind itself and say "UK Government cannot create THESE types of law".

The courts can then adjudicate on whether Government did or didn't stray into self-prohibited territory.

This already exists in the Scottish Parliament, which has the power to legislate on devolved matters, but not reserved matters and excluded matters. If it does legislate in these latter areas, or the UK Government thinks it has legislated in these areas, off to the Supreme Court they go.

Re: Wikipedia loses challenge against Online Safety Act

#677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure the PAYG block is circumvented by simply changing the APN in the carrier settings using freely available information online - that's how 3Ireland works and VodafoneIRL IIRC. It also had the annoying consequence of blocking all 'adult' sites - which included sites of historic interest and things like the internet archive. The problem with 'child safety' in the UK has almost nothing to do with pornographers…

Normalizing those mosquito devices and trying to drive teenagers out of public life, banning kitchen knives in some attempt to keep kids from getting used to blades... the UK strategy on kids is very very strange to me. I can't follow the logic at all. Do they expect them to silently sit at home, not using the Internet, not going anywhere with friends, and end up well adjusted adults anyway?

Basically yeah. Where I live virtually all kinds of community centres have closed down due to lack of funding, even a local library had to close because local council has no money to keep it running. As a teenager there is nothing to do around here, a town of 20k people next to a 300k city. And then I see people complaining that "oh there are teenagers around the park at night" - yeah, because they have literally nothing else to do. And they aren't even causing anyone any harm, they just sit there and chat most of the time. But I see local neighbours groups all being like "someone needs to do something about these youths!" - like yeah, no shit, but so far the only solution anyone has is to "silently sit at home, not using the Internet, not going anywhere with friends, and end up well adjusted adults anyway". 6th largest economy in the world and it can't even keep a library open.

Re: Wikipedia loses challenge against Online Safety Act

#678

In Russia there is a plan to make special SIM cards for children, that would not allow registration in social networks. Isn't it better than UK legislation? The whole idea that every site or app must do verification is stupid. It would be much easier and better to do verification at the store when buying a laptop, a phone or a SIM card. The verification status can be burned in firmware memory, and the device would al…

Apple, Google etc are already implementing the Digital Credentials API standard which would make this type age verification much more secure.

Re: Wikipedia loses challenge against Online Safety Act

#679
post #341

US should slap travel bans on UK politicians travelling to Disney parks and similar in Florida with their families. And/or with their older children visiting NYC. The combined pressure of the wives and their children, will knock sense in their thick skulls quickly. In the sense of - being stupid is not cost free. Atm it's cost free for them, and costly for me.

US is not exactly desirable location for tourism right now. And like, appeal of of florida Disneyland as a dream place to go to was never all that huge abroad. The Disney cult/dream is more of an American thing.

And to add to that - I'd wager that British people who want to go to Disneyland just go to the one in Paris, it's a LOT cheaper than the American ones.

Re: Wikipedia loses challenge against Online Safety Act

#680
post #194

> The government told the BBC it welcomed the High Court's judgment, "which will help us continue our work implementing the Online Safety Act to create a safer online world for everyone". Demonstrably false. It creates a safer online world for some . > In particular the foundation is concerned the extra duties required - if Wikipedia was classed as Category 1 - would mean it would have to verify the identity of its c…

>> The government told the BBC it welcomed the High Court's judgment, "which will help us continue our work implementing the Online Safety Act to create a safer online world for everyone". >Demonstrably false. It creates a safer online world for some. Does it even do that ?

It's safer for those in power who don't want their actions criticized.
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