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Open models by OpenAI

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Re: Open models by OpenAI

#671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPT-5 coming Thursday.

Is this the stealth models horizon alpha and beta? I was generally impressed with them(although I really only used it in chats rather than any code tasks). In terms of chat I increasingly see very little difference between the current SOTA closed models and their open weight counterparts.

Their tokenization suggests they're new Qwen models AFAIK. They tokenize input to the exact same # of tokens that Qwen models do.

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#672
post #357

The lede is being missed imo. gpt-oss:20b is a top ten model (on MMLU (right behind Gemini-2.5-Pro) and I just ran it locally on my Macbook Air M3 from last year. I've been experimenting with a lot of local models, both on my laptop and on my phone (Pixel 9 Pro), and I figured we'd be here in a year or two. But no, we're here today. A basically frontier model, running for the cost of electricity (free with a rounding…

I tried 20b locally and it couldn't reason a way out of a basic river crossing puzzle with labels changed. That is not anywhere near SOTA. In fact it's worse than many local models that can do it, including e.g. QwQ-32b.

> In fact it's worse than many local models that can do it, including e.g. QwQ-32b.

I'm not going to be surprised that a 20B 4/32 MoE model (3.6B parameters activated) is less capable at a particular problem category than a 32B dense model, and its quite possible for both to be SOTA, as state of the art at different scale (both parameter count and speed which scales with active resource needs) is going to have different capabilities. TANSTAAFL.

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#673
The model architecture only uses and cites pre-2023 techniques from the GPT-2 and GPT-3 era. Probably they intentionally tried to use the most bare transformers architecture possible. Kudo to them to have found a clever way to play the open-weights model game, while hiding any architectural advancements used in their closed models, and also claim they have moats in data quality and training techniques.

They hide many things, but some speculated observations:

- Their 'mini' models must be smaller than 20B.

- Does the bitter lesson once again strike recent ideas in open models?

- Some architectural ideas cannot be stripped away even if they wanted to, e.g., MoEs, mixed sparse attention, RoPE, etc.

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#674
post #357

The lede is being missed imo. gpt-oss:20b is a top ten model (on MMLU (right behind Gemini-2.5-Pro) and I just ran it locally on my Macbook Air M3 from last year. I've been experimenting with a lot of local models, both on my laptop and on my phone (Pixel 9 Pro), and I figured we'd be here in a year or two. But no, we're here today. A basically frontier model, running for the cost of electricity (free with a rounding…

How much ram is in your Macbook Air M3 ? I have the 16Gb version and i was wondering whether i'll be able to run it or not.

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#675
post #357

The lede is being missed imo. gpt-oss:20b is a top ten model (on MMLU (right behind Gemini-2.5-Pro) and I just ran it locally on my Macbook Air M3 from last year. I've been experimenting with a lot of local models, both on my laptop and on my phone (Pixel 9 Pro), and I figured we'd be here in a year or two. But no, we're here today. A basically frontier model, running for the cost of electricity (free with a rounding…

I’m still trying to understand what is the biggest group of people that uses local AI (or will)? Students who don’t want to pay but somehow have the hardware? Devs who are price conscious and want free agentic coding? Local, in my experience, can’t even pull data from an image without hallucinating (Qwen 2.5 VI in that example). Hopefully local/small models keep getting better and devices get better at running bigger…

Agencies / firms that work with classified data. Some places have very strict policies on data, which makes it impossible to use any service that isn't local and air-gapped.

example: military intel

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#676
post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slavery is still legal and widespread in most of the US, including California. There was a ballot measure to actually abolish slavery a year or so back. It failed miserably.

The slavery of free humans is illegal in America, so now the big issue is figuring out how to convince voters that imprisoned criminals deserve rights. Even in liberal states, the dehumanization of criminals is an endemic behavior, and we are reaching the point in our society where ironically having the leeway to discuss the humane treatment of even our worst criminals is becoming an issue that affects how we see our…

I do not think you can equate making prisoners work with slavery. Other countries do the same, and it is not regarded as slavery in general.

If people were sold into slavery as a punishment (so they became some one else's property) as some ancient societies did, then that would clearly be slavery.

The most shocking thing about prisons in the US is how common prison rape is, and the extent to which it seems to be regarded as a joke. The majority of rapes in the US are prison rapes. How can that not be anything but an appalling problem?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape_in_the_United_Stat...

Rape is also something slaves are casually subject to in most slave societies. It was definitely accept that Roman slave owners were free to rape men, women and children they owned.

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#677
post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://dpaste.org/zOev0

Is the knowledge cutoff for this thing so stale or is this just bad performance on recent data ?

The knowledge cutoff is before the 2024 election (which was, after all, just 9 months ago), June 2024 (I believe this is consistent with the current versions of GPT-4o and -4.1), after Biden had secured the nomination.

It is very clear in that chat logs (which include reasoning traces) that the model knew that, knew what the last election it knew about was, and answered correctly based on its cut off initially. Under pressure to answer about an election that was not within its knowledge window it then confabulated a Biden 2024 victory, which it dug in on after being contradicted with a claim that, based on the truth at the time of its knowledge cutoff, was unambiguously false ("Joe Biden did not run") He, in fact, did run for reelection, but withdrew after having secured enough delegates to win the nomination by a wide margin on July 21. Confabulation (called "hallucination" in AI circles, but it is more like human confabulation than hallucination) when pressed for answers on questions for which it lacks grounding remains an unsolved AI problem.

Unsolved, but mitigated by providing it grounding independent of its knowledge cutoff, e.g., by tools like web browsing (which GPT-OSS is specifically trained for, but that training does no good if its not hooked into a framework which provides it the tools.)

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add healthcare. Cannot send our patients data to a cloud provider

A ton of EMR systems are cloud-hosted these days. There’s already patient data for probably a billion humans in the various hyperscalers. Totally understand that approaches vary but beyond EMR there’s work to augment radiologists with computer vision to better diagnose, all sorts of cloudy things. It’s here. It’s growing. Perhaps in your jurisdiction it’s prohibited? If so I wonder for how long.

In the US, HIPAA requires that health care providers complete a Business Associate Agreement with any other orgs that receive PHI in the course of doing business [1]. It basically says they understand HIPAA privacy protections and will work to fulfill the contracting provider's obligations regarding notification of breaches and deletion. Obviously any EMR service will include this by default.

Most orgs charge a huge premium for this. OpenAI offers it directly [2]. Some EMR providers are offering it as an add-on [3], but last I heard, it's wicked expensive.

1: https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-professionals/covered-entities...

2: https://help.openai.com/en/articles/8660679-how-can-i-get-a-...

3: https://www.ntst.com/carefabric/careguidance-solutions/ai-do...

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A ton of EMR systems are cloud-hosted these days. There’s already patient data for probably a billion humans in the various hyperscalers. Totally understand that approaches vary but beyond EMR there’s work to augment radiologists with computer vision to better diagnose, all sorts of cloudy things. It’s here. It’s growing. Perhaps in your jurisdiction it’s prohibited? If so I wonder for how long.

In the US, HIPAA requires that health care providers complete a Business Associate Agreement with any other orgs that receive PHI in the course of doing business [1]. It basically says they understand HIPAA privacy protections and will work to fulfill the contracting provider's obligations regarding notification of breaches and deletion. Obviously any EMR service will include this by default. Most orgs charge a huge…

> Most LLM companies might not even offer it.

I'm pretty sure the LLM services of the big general-purpose cloud providers do (I know for sure that Amazon Bedrock is a HIPAA Eligible Service, meaning it is covered within their standard Business Associate Addendum [their name for the Business Associate Agreeement as part of an AWS contract].)

https://aws.amazon.com/compliance/hipaa-eligible-services-re...

Re: Open models by OpenAI

#680

Wow, today is a crazy AI release day: - OAI open source - Opus 4.1 - Genie 3 - ElevenLabs Music

wow I just listened to Eleven Music do flamenco singing. That is incredible. Edit. I just tried it though and less impressed now. We are really going to need major music software to get on board before we have actual creative audio tools. These all seem made for non-musicians to make a very cookie cutter song from a specific genre.

I also tried it for a full 100K credits (Wasted in 2 hours btw which is silly!).

Compared to both Udio and Suno, it's very very bad.. both at compositions, matching lyrics to music, keeping tempo and as soon as there's any distorted instruments like guitars or live, quality goes to radio-level.

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