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‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

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671–680 of 955 posts

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important to note that a big part of Israeli society opposes the JahuNatan government, the illegal settlers and war crimes in Gaza. Even after the Hamas attack on Kibbutzim near Gaza in '23. Quite important not to become part of the problem when you discuss this case. And the problem is that such a heated subject is prone to make people ideologically possessed and tribal. To a point where they become emotionally…

It's interesting to contrast comments like this in this thread, with the amount of hatred and abuse heaped upon Russians on the day of Russia's invasion - not just the Russian state, but a big chunk of comments that made it clear that they held all Russians responsible for it and would like to see their lives destroyed. And had relatively little pushback against them. I agree with the sentiment of your second paragra…

The Russian war on Ukraine is a WILDLY different case. There was no border dispute of any kind between these countries, no terror, no threats, just the Russian desire to own Ukraine.

Your point is pretty moot.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#672
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the First Nations of North America

Do they keep bombing Washington?

They managed to hold onto Alcatraz for longer than anyone expected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Alcatraz

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#673
post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's quite another to claim "collective punishment", and that doesn't stand up to scrutiny. 17,000 kids killed directly by Isreal. > the UN refuses to collect them and distribute them A blatant lie. Actual news coverage of that border crossing: https://apnews.com/article/aid-gaza-hunger-united-nations-e7...

> 17,000 kids killed directly by Isreal. The appropriate question is does this meet the intent requirements for collective punishment? All these international crimes do have various requirements. Collective punishment in particular has more intent requirements than many other war crimes. Death and destruction in and of itself is not sufficient.

> The appropriate question is does this meet the intent requirements for collective punishment?

Let's put Netanyahu in front of the ICC and let the lawyers figure it out.

Edit: That isn't tongue in cheek, I think it is one of the few ways to difuse the cauldron of violence that keeps brewing hotter and hotter. A broad international coalition to hold the leadership on both sides responsible for their war crimes.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are currently about 40 countries that have a higher Muslim percentage than Israel's Jewish percentage. Many of them much higher. Many of them kicked out all their Jews in recent history.

Just as a confirmation, how many of those muslim countries are actively in the process of murdering, starving, dehumanising and destroying every single building the jews living in an open air prison ?

They all already completed that over the past 75 years, there aren't any Jews left in those countries anymore.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#675

Can someone living in Israel help me understand what is going on right now? What does the political climate look like in Israel? Do majority of people support what is happening, if so why? if not, how is the government executing this? Further, has this had any impact on the overall relationship between Jewish people worldwide and those residing in Israel? if so, how? I know that the media is all over the place and it…

Basically nothing portrayed by the main stream media / international press on this issue is accurately represented. Most of it is either wildly ignorant or actively hostile (or both). The Free Press, Call Me Back (podcast), and Breaking Israeli History (podcast) do a good job. Also we will dance again and October 8 (films). I'd also recommend Douglas Murray's On Democracies and Death Cults to get some perspective if…

I think a lot of this is hard for an external observer to discern. Are the Palestinians really thar bad? Is IDF really bombing indiscriminately? Ultimately a lot of this is down to information external observers don't have, and people's convictions are at risk of aligning with their sympathies. It is definitely true of me. I don't know if Israel really needs to destroy Hamas to be safe, and what is sufficient to do that.

However, there are two aspects of this conflict where Israel is IMO monumentally and unarguably in the wrong.

One is the settler program. It is wholly inconsistent with a desire to live peacefully alongside even savage enemies. If they are so bad, put up fences and put guns on them - as Israel is doing. But the settlement program, with displacements of Palestinian civilians, bulldozing of Palestinian villages, rendering arable land inhospitable, unchecked settler violence, is clearly just a land grab, and against any semblance of desiring a peaceful coexistence. It often gets dismissed as a fringe movement, but election after election, democratic Israeli governments show varying, but always positive amounts of support.

The other is use of famine against civilians. There is no conceivable military goal in sight other than indiscriminate death and misery onto truly random people, half of them below the median age of 19 not even being politically active. It is not an accident either, Ben Gvir and/or Smotrich talk about it openly.

To be clear, Hamas and co are also guilty of horrendous crimes. Thing is, vast majority of reasonable people accept that and point it out. Israel clearly accepts that too, but perceives the mere whiff of criticism as rabid discrimination.

And the two don't cancel out. It's not about restraint, or higher standard, or any uneven field. Any instance of terrorism and genocide is horrendous, unnecessary and unacceptable. They don't serve military or diplomatic deals. They are there to hurt just because you can, and somehow it pleases some basic human instinct.

Anti-Israeli crime is awful and I condemn it. I don't support Hamas, heckling of Jews around the world, the 7th Oct attacks were awful. I mean it. And Israel's actions are also awful and inhumane.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are currently about 40 countries that have a higher Muslim percentage than Israel's Jewish percentage. Many of them much higher. Many of them kicked out all their Jews in recent history.

What exactly is your argument here? Jews were kicked out of Muslim countries, therefore, Jews can treat Palestinians like subhumans?

My argument is that people seem to get very worked up when the Jews do something, but basically nobody cares about other similar or even worse things done by other people. I suspect this is most likely because of antisemitism (not that every anti-Israel person is an antisemite, but that the movement would not have become so prominent without a large core of dedicated antisemites).

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#677
post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here though is what will ever give Israel confidence that Oct 7 will never happen again? We know that going after terrorists for years and killing them just creates more terrorists (Iraq, Afghanistan). The young children who do not end up dying of starvation will be men in 20 years, still in Gaza with no options to leave and resent Israel who they will consider to be effectively their jailer. The situatio…

> what will ever give Israel confidence that Oct 7 will never happen again? No Hamas in power? Seems like that would give pretty good confidence. This reminds me of alternate history stories where Japan refused to surrender. The US demanded unconditional surrender in WW2. What would have happened if the axis refused. What would have made the allies confident that the war was over without German and Japanese unconditi…

And you think the children who's entire families were obliterated will simply forget that, only because Hamas was defeated?

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#678
post #346

Can someone living in Israel help me understand what is going on right now? What does the political climate look like in Israel? Do majority of people support what is happening, if so why? if not, how is the government executing this? Further, has this had any impact on the overall relationship between Jewish people worldwide and those residing in Israel? if so, how? I know that the media is all over the place and it…

Israeli here, can't directly answer your question since I've lived in the US for 99% of my adult life, but I consider myself pro-Israel and resent the way Israel is currently/always being portrayed. I see the key problem as people removing context: Context for why the current situation could easily be different if Hamas acted/acts differently, and context for why there is no "just stop fighting" option that leaves Is…

Unlike the Palestinians, you can simply move to the US though.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#679

Can someone living in Israel help me understand what is going on right now? What does the political climate look like in Israel? Do majority of people support what is happening, if so why? if not, how is the government executing this? Further, has this had any impact on the overall relationship between Jewish people worldwide and those residing in Israel? if so, how? I know that the media is all over the place and it…

They do not have the luxury to hallucinate neighbours who just want to life like the west. They just see reality: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1vH2H6oIo4

yeah i guess we need to kill more kids

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#680
post #346

Can someone living in Israel help me understand what is going on right now? What does the political climate look like in Israel? Do majority of people support what is happening, if so why? if not, how is the government executing this? Further, has this had any impact on the overall relationship between Jewish people worldwide and those residing in Israel? if so, how? I know that the media is all over the place and it…

Israeli here, can't directly answer your question since I've lived in the US for 99% of my adult life, but I consider myself pro-Israel and resent the way Israel is currently/always being portrayed. I see the key problem as people removing context: Context for why the current situation could easily be different if Hamas acted/acts differently, and context for why there is no "just stop fighting" option that leaves Is…

settler attacks against West Bank Palestinians were not caused by Hamas, but by the settlers religious belief that the land is promised to them. That is a key part of the context as well. And in that vein, what options to Palestinians have to defend against violent settlers and displacement?
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