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Do not download the app, use the website

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Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#671

Post by threatofrain »

kelthuzad wrote: post #649
threatofrain wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

>I’m building a PWA right now in the drone automation space. I can feel the sparsity of the ecosystem. What are you talking about? The ecosystem of the web is VASTLY SUPERIOR to anything else. You're just desperately trying to score a point where the is none to score. You don't have to bend over backwards in defense of gatekeepers like Apple (unless you are a massive shareholder) >A lot of people following this discu…

By saying we're all web devs here, I mean you should've already expected that we have an impression of job posts, Reddit, Hacker News, Google Search¹ trends, Github ecosystem, or even npm download trends. We start the argument there.

> That's just the lazy manufactured and false narrative that I've already thoroughly debunked. I'm not going to repeat it, since you would just ignore it again.

But of course you've brought nothing of the like to this discussion, so I don't know wtf you're thinking when you say you've brought the "thorough" debunking. I looked over your discussion history just to be sure I didn't miss anything because there's the implication of another post somewhere else. There's nothing to be missed, everyone is free to look at your history and your concept of thorough analysis.²

I bring up Google because I care about Android. PWAs absolutely could have a chance to win in Android land over Kotlin, React Native, or Flutter. And now Google just talks about it less and less.

[1]: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&ge...

[2]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44692070

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#672

Post by WorldPeas »

WorldPeas wrote: post #469
rambambram wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is the Nanote Next? I've been eyeing these kind of small laptops for years, but never got to buying one. Is it only available in Japan?

nope, it can be had via ebay for around 200 dollars, for which you get a metal chassis, 360 hinge, nice enough keyboard and track-nib, 8gb ddr4 and 64gb all to say that it's the basic system requirements to be a proper video-terminal into a mac desktop. The nanote itself has had some driver issues with its touchscreen (that I do not use, so didn't care to install) and screen rotation. I would say it's a shame we don'…

https://darekasan-net.hatenablog.com/entry/2021/04/23/145516

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#673

Post by rchaud »

IshKebab wrote: post #389
tempestn wrote: post #384

At AutoTempest we resisted making an app for years, because anything that a hypothetical app could do, we could do with the website. And in my opinion, when searching for cars, it's more convenient to be in your browser where you can easily open new tabs, bookmark results, etc. And for years, it was our most requested feature, by far. We had instructions for how to pin the site to your home screen, and would explain…

Interesting. Why do you think so many websites try to foist apps on you if people will voluntarily download them anyway?

Apps have the ability to send notifications, web apps meanwhile have to deal with a pesky browser that prompts you to provide explicit consent for them to do that.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#674

Post by ciabattabread »

tpmoney wrote: post #573
socalgal2 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Average, yes, probably an exaggeration. Some apps iOS: wechat: 740meg gmail: 672 google chat: 585 uber: 582 tiktok: 572 headspace: 498 instagram: 467 doulingo: 462 bank of america: 456 capital one: 435 expedia: 412 linkedin: 402 doordash: 392 google: 379 facebook: 365 unitied airlines:355 chase: 352 google photos: 348 line: 346 amex: 339 google maps: 336 youtube: 329 booking.com: 320 citi: 319 amazon music: 317 snapc…

> of course Apple doesn't list the size of their own apps like Apple Maps, Photos, Music, etc... You can find that in the phone storage settings: iOS: 12 G Keynote: 498 M Numbers: 482 M Pages: 455 M Clips: 213 M Maps: 81 M Watch: 70 M Find My: 60 M Music: 38 M iTunes U: 35 M Support: 34 M Podcasts: 32 M Books: 31 M iCloud Drive: 30 M Freeform: 19 M Fitness: 18 M Notes: 17 M Journal: 15 M Home: 10 M App Store: 8 M Wea…

> Maps: 81 M

Is MapKit considered iOS or Maps?

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#676

Post by thephyber »

prmph wrote: post #627
kelthuzad wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We had instructions for how to pin the site to your home screen, and would explain to users how the website does everything an app can do. Still, constant requests for an app. This is the result of the inconsistent user experience to which gatekeepers like Apple have been actively contributing through active sabotage of web apps, such that all profitable apps can be more effectively and reliably taxed through Apple'…

Exactly, web apps are superior in most ways to mobile apps for the user experience, but only if vendors support the web and stop actively trying to make it like apps are the better option. The preference for apps is a learned behavior, not something fundamental. The vast majority of people with real understanding would prefer the web

This seems like an extremely biased opinion.

PWAs are only as good of a user experience as the developer programs it to be. The average local TV news affiliate website spends 5MB-20MB of bandwidth within a minute of downloading 1 page. My last iOS app was only 5MB shipped and only consumes a few KB of bandwidth per session.

There are massive convenience features that native apps support which aren’t available to browser APIs. Auth, payments, notifications, parental controls, power efficiency, and perhaps security and privacy (depending on how prevalent analytics/ tracking/ advertising libraries are on native apps).

A well crafted PWA can compete on most features with a well crafted app, but ultimately the App Store review process means native apps have a decently high floor, whereas PWAs have zero floor.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#677

Post by kelthuzad »

threatofrain wrote: post #671
kelthuzad wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I’m building a PWA right now in the drone automation space. I can feel the sparsity of the ecosystem. What are you talking about? The ecosystem of the web is VASTLY SUPERIOR to anything else. You're just desperately trying to score a point where the is none to score. You don't have to bend over backwards in defense of gatekeepers like Apple (unless you are a massive shareholder) >A lot of people following this discu…

By saying we're all web devs here, I mean you should've already expected that we have an impression of job posts, Reddit, Hacker News, Google Search¹ trends, Github ecosystem, or even npm download trends. We start the argument there. > That's just the lazy manufactured and false narrative that I've already thoroughly debunked. I'm not going to repeat it, since you would just ignore it again. But of course you've brou…

>By saying we're all web devs here, I mean you should've already expected that we have an impression of job posts, Reddit, Hacker News, Google Search¹ trends, Github ecosystem, or even npm download trends. We start the argument there.

I can't tell if you're just accidentally incoherent or if you're just using some generated slop that makes no sense in the flow of the discussion. You claimed that the web ecosystem is "sparse", it's not. The ecosystem of the web is vastly superior to anything else. I don't see how your new twist makes any sense in that context.

>But of course you've brought nothing of the like to this discussion, so I don't know wtf you're thinking when you say you've brought the "thorough" debunking. I looked over your discussion history just to be sure I didn't miss anything because there's the implication of another post somewhere else. There's nothing to be missed, everyone is free to look at your history and your concept of thorough analysis.

I really have no interest in entertaining your gaslighting, the evidence is indeed in my history for everybody to look at, so you must be putting in extra effort of upholding your rhetoric and the resulting cognitive dissonance:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44692287

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44694037

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44695403

>I bring up Google because I care about Android. PWAs absolutely could have a chance to win in Android land over Kotlin, React Native, or Flutter. And now Google just talks about it less and less.

I swear your whole post is so contradictory and strangely written that it feels like generated by an llm that couldn't get a proper grip on the discussion. Since your initial comment was peak zero effort comment that just stated something everybody is already aware of and concluded with an unsubstantiated claim that had just been properly refuted.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#678

Post by tpmoney »

ciabattabread wrote: post #674
tpmoney wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> of course Apple doesn't list the size of their own apps like Apple Maps, Photos, Music, etc... You can find that in the phone storage settings: iOS: 12 G Keynote: 498 M Numbers: 482 M Pages: 455 M Clips: 213 M Maps: 81 M Watch: 70 M Find My: 60 M Music: 38 M iTunes U: 35 M Support: 34 M Podcasts: 32 M Books: 31 M iCloud Drive: 30 M Freeform: 19 M Fitness: 18 M Notes: 17 M Journal: 15 M Home: 10 M App Store: 8 M Wea…

> Maps: 81 M Is MapKit considered iOS or Maps?

No idea, those are the numbers as reported in the settings app. I would assume it's part of the OS since it's a framework for other apps to tap into mapping functionality. For comparison Sygic is 324 MB. Waze is 170 MB, Tom Tom is 251 MB, Magic Earth is 135 MB and OSM And is 238 MB

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#679

Post by distances »

W3zzy wrote: post #669
distances wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no reason a website should be more up to date than an app. Could just as well be the other way around.

You need to update the app on your device. That's automated for a lot of users but not all. A web app should be maintained by the developers and should be updated to the latest stable version at all times. A web app shouldn't depend on your OS either so it would also run on OS'es that aren't supported anymore.

That's fair, but the number of people who don't have automatic app updates is clearly miniscule, not really relevant for this consideration.

I do grant that web is likely more up to date. But only because they can ship immediately, without the app store review process. Technically web could also be slower to release, nothing guarantees web freshness.

Re: Do not download the app, use the website

#680

Post by kldg »

threatofrain wrote: post #499
kelthuzad wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We had instructions for how to pin the site to your home screen, and would explain to users how the website does everything an app can do. Still, constant requests for an app. This is the result of the inconsistent user experience to which gatekeepers like Apple have been actively contributing through active sabotage of web apps, such that all profitable apps can be more effectively and reliably taxed through Apple'…

There isn't just Apple, there's also Google which is a big promoter of PWA's, and in fact they popularized the term. PWA's just never took off.

I use PWAs for my home websites (things like calendars and thermostat) running on tablets. They're a bit awkward, or I'm just ignorant of The Correct Way. I have to set metadata in a file for some reason I don't understand (most importantly, it must have a dedicated icon to display because ???). Then whenever tablet is restarted, I have to tap the website icon to launch it, then push up from bottom of screen to top and hold it up to bring up whatever Android calls the app manager, and then I tap and hold the window of my app and tap to pin it. -and if Android decides to reboot for whatever reason, I must do this again.

-But it's less pain than trying to turn a generic Android tablet into something more like a kiosk, best I can tell (there are third-party apps that do this, which survives reboots, I'm led to believe, but I'd rather not mess with third-party stuff). I previously made Android apps in Java for the tablets, and while I enjoyed the fragment system it uses, the permissions handling was always a nightmare whenever I wanted to do something neat or experimental -- TTS and mic listening in a PWA makes me much less frustrated than trying to do it via native app (which seems backwards to me), and I can still use the website on any non-Android device.

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