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Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

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Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#671

Post by gosteinao »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #657
anonym29 wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is it really your intent to imply that I have called for such? That is quite the wild leap. I feel compelled to object that the turn this exchange has taken does not come across as being one of good faith. No, that was not my intention. You are right to object here. I allowed myself to get worked up by inadvertently framing your more methodological perspective as a moral perspective, and your perception that I came…

For what it's worth I myself am actually quite opposed to the status quo when it comes to freedom of expression. Most people, notably even most US nationals, seem to feel that the US permits too much. In contrast I favor compete abolishment of the obscenity carveouts. However that isn't a free standing view on my part. I acknowledge that the conservatives raise a number of hard hitting points about corrosion of the s…

People look at the "corrosion of the social fabric", and they point at the most inconsequential stuff. It's quite funny.

We live in a world where technology made everyone live in their own bubbles, only consume and reinforce what they already believe, create narrow identities with strict rules enforced by groupthink, and lose track of the things and people that we actually interact and have to deal with on a day-to-day basis.

Yet, people think this small stuff that has been around forever, that are tiny parts of our society or lives, that this stuff is the problem with everything today.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#673

Post by mandmandam »

drdeca wrote: post #655
toomanyrichies wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you're saying porn either "gave" you a fetish, or uncovered a latent fetish you didn't know you had (and /or preferred not to know about). If that's an accurate read, can I ask what harm it causes you to have a fetish? Provided it doesn't harm anyone else, what's wrong with liking what you like?

I don’t buy the “revealed a latent fetish” explanation. I don’t think people are born with a fetish baked into their soul. Like, the people with the “blueberry expansion” one, you really think they were born with that? No, of course not, that would be dumb. I think the main reason people put forth the “latent fetish” explanation is in order to argue that pornography is harmless. As for why it harms me? The purpose of…

> The purpose of sexuality is for relations with one’s spouse

That's not actually true.

That doctrine has been used to guilt-trip people and control their lives for many hundreds of years - but it isn't true. People are complex. We're not self-replicating machines whose sole purpose is to breed.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#675

Post by anonzzzies »

__MatrixMan__ wrote: post #447
ben_w wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Don't like porn? Don't buy it. Simple as that. The claim isn't "we don't like it", the claim is "this is damaging to society". I don't agree with such things in many cases (and many people disagree with me when I'm the one saying something is damaging to society), but it's important to note the difference or you will always be arguing against something other than their claim. > No one, including governments or paym…

It's pretty wild that people think that porn is more damaging to society than censorship.

Or guns. Or payday loans. Or credit card debt. Or credit score. Etc.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#676

Post by godelski »

stevenAthompson wrote: post #612
godelski wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's important to note the difference or you will always be arguing against something other than their claim. I think this is critical insight and applies to a lot of topics. I think it is true for pretty much every heated topic. The mistake we often make is that we believe that the other side is not optimizing correctly. Instead, it is often that they are optimizing but under differing constraints. If we don't pay…

> they are optimizing but under differing constraints Most often this doesn't happen because one side fails to understand the other, it happens because one side is dishonest about their motivations or goals. In this case, the censors would like you to believe that they think pornography is harmful. The reality is that they're religious zealots who feel the need to prevent other people from making their own choices ab…

IME it doesn't help to villainize the other side, it only escalates things. You're right that there are bad actors, but I don't think this is accurate for the majority of people. You need to differentiate the people leading a group from the people within a group. Leaders may be highly manipulative bad actors, but that doesn't mean that the people that they duped are.

It may not be good logic, or even self-consistent, but everyone is always using some logic. I'm saying "find it if you want to convince them." Very few people see themselves as evil, or more accurately intentionally choosing evil. And I say this as someone who was once a member of a religion that has its own state. You're not going to pull people out of that by acting like they're evil. They're trying very hard to be good, just misguided.

There's an saying that I believe was popularized during the Cold War. I think you should consider it.

  The difference between you and me is smaller than the difference between us and our respective leaders.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#677

Post by password54321 »

jjaksic wrote: post #634

This is somewhat tangential: people are debating a lot whether porn has negative effects, but has anyone thought about or studied positive effects? I personally think it's more likely for porn to have positive effects and that it's preferable to sexual deprivation. Horny and sexually deprived people tend to sometimes do awful things like sexual harassment or even rape, but if they have access to porn, they're much le…

You just described the problem. You want men to be pacified through their screen rather than engaging with real women.

You aren't the only one who seems to think this way though, we have more things than ever to pacify men and even increase estrogen and decrease testosterone probably because some believe that men are inherently dangerous.

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#678

Post by cindyllm »

godelski wrote: post #676
stevenAthompson wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they are optimizing but under differing constraints Most often this doesn't happen because one side fails to understand the other, it happens because one side is dishonest about their motivations or goals. In this case, the censors would like you to believe that they think pornography is harmful. The reality is that they're religious zealots who feel the need to prevent other people from making their own choices ab…

IME it doesn't help to villainize the other side, it only escalates things. You're right that there are bad actors, but I don't think this is accurate for the majority of people. You need to differentiate the people leading a group from the people within a group. Leaders may be highly manipulative bad actors, but that doesn't mean that the people that they duped are. It may not be good logic, or even self-consistent,…

[dead]

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#679

Post by npteljes »

linuxhansl wrote: post #672

Why do you people always presume they know what is best for other people? Don't like porn? Cool, don't buy it or avert your eyes! As if this would stop anybody from getting access to pornographic content.

Some people actually care for the whole, or for the wholesomeness of a specific subset. This includes (on the face) most people who participate in public life. Which is a lot of people!

>Don't like porn? Cool, don't buy it or avert your eyes!

Why do you then tell others how to live their lives? Is really leaving everyone to their own devices the good idea?

>As if this would stop anybody from getting access to pornographic content.

There is a good difference between something being generally available to access (and getting promoted even), and being technically available to some. There is material worthy of being suppressed, hate speech and calls for violence being some of them. Did this censorship stop anybody to access Mein Kampf or other such vile stuff? Not really, but it helps a lot that these are not in the front and center.

EDIT: I invite downvoters to voice their point

Re: Steam, Itch.io are pulling ‘porn’ games. Critics say it's a slippery slope

#680

Post by npteljes »

8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #44

What sort of leverage can a group like this realistically have on Visa and Mastercard? Can they really make a dent in their top line?

My guess is none, and that they are only used as a front for this. It really doesn't add up that a "grassroots org" from Australia that doesn't even have its own Wikipedia page can pressure Mastercard / Visa to pressure Steam to remove games. Makes zero sense.

EDIT: I invite downvoters to voice their point

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