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Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

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Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#671

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #464
beowulfey wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is challenging and expensive to get a driver's license in Germany, and the repercussions for screwing up are high. Also driving isn't as necessary--the excellent public transit means there are alternate means of traveling, so not having one is less of a detriment. So while the Autobahn might be considered the Platonic ideal of high-speed driving, it isn't always feasible or likely and I don't think it should be co…

> excellent public transit Traveling by train ... is it some sarcasm or you've never been to Germany?

Local transit is usually decent. Regional trains are also much better than the long distance ones.

The long distance ones are a disaster in Germany, whereas in the US, they don't meaningfully exist.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#672

Post by alexb_ »

card_zero wrote: post #555
flustercan wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ehh the roads are public property. I don't think its unreasonable that if you want your car to be registered to drive on a public road it needs some sort of speed limiter. Its about the same level of infringement on your personal rights as requiring a car have seatbelts. Feel free to buy a car with no limiter or no seatbelts and drive it on your own private roads as fast as your heart desires.

Some kind of exoskeletons to control people just walking around in public, too. Stop them doing bad things. Wait, no, that's an excessively extreme level of control, while seatbelt laws are an acceptable level of control because, actually I don't know why, but anyway speed limiters are somewhere between these two levels of control, and therefore acceptable. Or not. One of those.

This is complete nonsense. You could say this for literally any law.

Yes, we have laws that exist to control people's behavior. We have systems which exist to control people's behavior. This is intended and completely necessary to live in a society with other people. For an example that causes no controversy to anyone on this board - we have laws that control people's ability to take open-source code and use it without sharing.

You're pretending like this is completely crazy by inventing a position nobody has taken, claiming "speed limiters in cars for repeat speed offenders" is the same as that insane position you just invented, and then pretending to be an idiot so that you don't have to do the work of actually justifying yourself. You should try practicing some actual thinking instead of resorting to pretending the people you disagree with are stupid.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#673

Post by pc86 »

raincom wrote: post #605
pc86 wrote: post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how incarcerating people who are guilty of a crime is unconscionable but monitoring everyone all the time and eliminating the ability to move from Point A to Point B privately is totally fine and no problem whatsoever.

Automated License Plate Readers (ALPRs) are used by every state in the US. They already have algorithms on top of these ALPRs to pull out suspects for possible drug mules.

Sorry what does that have to do with anything?

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#674

Post by ryao »

ipsento606 wrote: post #613
ryao wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no reason in the world to assume that US drivers have the same level of driving skill as German drivers. That is a very typical response, yet the notion of Germans being intrinsically superior to others has long been debunked.

> the notion of Germans being intrinsically superior By "German drivers" I mean drivers who are trained, licensed and insured in Germany. There is nothing "intrinsic" about it, and it has nothing to do with genetics or national origin.

That does not state how they would be more skilled. NYS has requirements on drivers too. You must satisfy pre-licensing requirements:

https://dmv.ny.gov/driver-license/complete-pre-licensing-req...

Those are the minimum standards. After meeting them, you can receive a learner’s permit at age 16, that allows you to drive under the supervision of a licensed driver. Parents will sometimes make things even more rigorous. My mother for example required me to drive her under supervision nearly every day for an entire year before she let me proceed to the next step for my license. This was in addition to study at a driving school that was already beyond the state’s minimum standard.

Then you must pass both written and practical exams. Interestingly, the minimum age for this varies. If you have gone through much more rigorous training (e.g. by studying at a driving school), you may receive your license at age 17. If you have not, you must wait until age 18. This encourages people to exceed the minimum standard for training.

After you have your license, if you do not take driver education courses every 3 years, you face higher insurance rates, so nearly everyone does. Finally, if you commit a few driving infractions within an 18 month span (which causes 11 points to be placed on your license), your license is suspended. Insurance rates rise if even a single point is added, so there is pressure to avoid even a single infraction. As for insurance, it is mandatory and the requirements are among the highest in the U.S.

It is unclear to me how German drivers would be more skilled than drivers trained/licensed/insured in NY per your phrasing. You have not given a single concrete example of anything that would make them better drivers.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#675

Post by potato3732842 »

gosub100 wrote: post #636
graemep wrote: post #527

Repeat offenders should not be allowed to drive. In the UK we have 12 points, and lose them for various offences. You get a fine, usually with the alternative of a course the first time. Speed again within 12 months and you get a fine and a minimum of three points (more if you are well above the limit). Speed again within four years and you will lose more points, and AFAIK pretty much guaranteed to be more than the m…

This is a rare case I support civil asset forfeiture: sue the car (in addition to criminal proceedings). Impound the car until fines are paid - which go into uninsured motorist funds - or else sell the car at auction and do the same. Will other parties' vehicles get impounded? Yes and that sucks. But either don't lend them your car, or else let the people closest to the offender pay the consequences more often than t…

I hope you don't wonder why civil asset forfeiture persists.

It's like you're laying one brick on the road to hell. Multiply by everyone else and their pet issues and the whole damn thing gets paved.

What even is the point of principals if you don't stand by them?

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#676

Post by 542354234235 »

bdangubic wrote: post #200
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any correlation between speeding tickets and the probability of getting into an accident at a given speed ? If you have to exceed the speed limit by 20 MPH today, better the person who does it all the time than the person who isn't used to it, no?

speed limits, if majority of cases are not about public safety but generators of revenue. if we all started driving the speed limit the number of accidents would not be significantly reduced while many, many cities/counties/… would fully go bankrupt. I have spent more than a decade in state&local courts records management business and can tell you this first-hand. you can cool deals if you just pay the fine and don’t…

This is a false dichotomy. You seem to think that the way speeds are enforced, with a focus on revenue generation, means that speed limiting is only for revenue generation. That is just not true. At higher speeds your reaction time, combined with stopping distance increases, mean that you need more warning and space to avoid hazards. Cars pulling out of driveways/side streets/parking lots, cars changing lanes, cars stopping to turn, pedestrians crossing roads, bicycles, etc. all take time and space to respond to. That is why we don’t have home driveways or crosswalks on a freeway. We have 15-25 mph school zones because children can and do behave unpredictably and may dart out into traffic, so a drive will have almost no time or space to respond.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#677

Post by jnsie »

peepeepoopoo114 wrote: post #408
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming you have high utility for guns, what do you use it for? Hunting? I'm no hunter and have never felt like I need a gun.

Just as mutually assured destruction brought lasting peace on the international scale, widespread civilian ownership of military weapons has also been a remarkably effective deterrent and safeguard against would-be tyrants across history. If both Karl Marx and the US founding fathers agreed that a well-armed public is important for a lasting civil peace, it's probably a good idea to listen.

> If both Karl Marx and the US founding fathers agreed that a well-armed public is important for a lasting civil peace, it's probably a good idea to listen.

The US founding fathers could not have imagined the weapons systems at the disposal of today's would-be tyrants. Don't bring a gun to an autonomous drone fight...

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#678

Post by mapt »

donatj wrote: post #560
graemep wrote: post #527

Repeat offenders should not be allowed to drive. In the UK we have 12 points, and lose them for various offences. You get a fine, usually with the alternative of a course the first time. Speed again within 12 months and you get a fine and a minimum of three points (more if you are well above the limit). Speed again within four years and you will lose more points, and AFAIK pretty much guaranteed to be more than the m…

Many places in the United States use speed traps as revenue streams, and in many of the same places in the US it's nigh impossible to get around without a vehicle. Taking someone's license away for getting caught doing 5 over a few too many times on the freeway where literally everyone is always doing 5 over and you are more of a danger by not going the speed of traffic doesn't in any way serve the public interest as…

Read the article.

The highest speed limit for Virginia is 70mph. Their bill gives judges the option of offering this for people who drive >100mph, as an alternative to license recovation.

The DC bill gives people whose license the judges are already suspending or revoking for speed-related offenses an alternative - drive with this limiter enabled for one year.

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2024/02/08/d-c-to-dangerous-driv...

Georgia is working on a similar bill for people convicted of street racing.

https://visionzeronetwork.org/accelerating-safety-states-cha...

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#679

Post by rpmisms »

op00to wrote: post #520
rpmisms wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, let's reconsider the entire idea of what you're proposing. Let's redefine driving as a right and punish antisocial behavior.

No, let’s reconsider the entire idea that a car is the default mode of transport.

But it is, because America is big. Sure, improve public transportation, but if it can't beat cars, it shouldn't.

Re: Virginia passes law to enforce maximum vehicle speeds for repeat speeders

#680

Post by techdmn »

i_love_retros wrote: post #638
hermannj314 wrote: post #522

This has as much to do with chronic speeding as bans on encryption have to do with terrorism. It is nothing more than a foot in the door for massive police surveillance of all motor vehicles. Virginia famously cares more about police than the rights of its citizens so it isn't a surprise the weapons of the future police state are being born there.

People who regularly endanger the lives of others SHOULD be tracked. Want to live freely? Then don't be an asshole.

Or be in the U.S. on a green card or student visa, apparently. But those are just people experiencing oppression. We're all being tracked.
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