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Trump exempts phones, computers, chips from ‘reciprocal’ tariffs

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Re: Trump exempts phones, computers, chips from ‘reciprocal’ tariffs

#671

Post by speleding »

beloch wrote: post #627
owenversteeg wrote: post #247

I’m not seeing anyone discuss this here, so I figured I’d raise an important point: this style of tariffs is crushing for US manufacturing. While a universal tariff with no exceptions incentivizes domestic manufacturing, a selective tariff with specific industry exceptions is absolute poison. You might think, as the authors of this exemption did, “well then we will exempt computer parts.” Then people will simply impo…

Factories, tooling, machinery, etc. must be amortized over a market and production run. If you're making toilet paper, the cost is relatively low and the market is huge. The TP you make today will still be good TP in a decade. No one toilet paper factory can serve the world, so you'll need many of them in many markets. The inputs can be found within the U.S.. Why not build one in the U.S.? A factory that produces a s…

I agree with your general point, but I just read the book "Your life is manufactured" by Tim Minshall, in which he describes the production of toilet paper in detail and it's a surprising global industry. Wood pulp with the correct density comes from a few specific places on the globe (Scandinavia and South America apparently).

Re: Trump exempts phones, computers, chips from ‘reciprocal’ tariffs

#672

Post by cwillu »

YZF wrote: post #554
jpster wrote: post #542

I suspect it would be a good idea if the US abolished the presidency and moved to a parliamentary system. Turns out that concentrating so much power in a single position is a bad idea.

You still often have one man with all the power in a parliamentary system. The Prime Minister. Take Canada as an example. JT had basically complete power over government. It's as rate for the prime minister party or coalition to go against him as it is for a president in the US to be impeached. I think the trick has to be to just get better people into those positions. Which means better people need to have some ince…

The notion that JT had complete control is just utter nonsense. Federal jurisdiction is sharply limited, the opposition party is expected to be able to introduce and pass legislation during a minority government (the ppc has just been acting incompetent; the NDP managed to pass national dental care despite only hold 16% of the seats), and provincial governments have been largely doing their own thing despite federal funding initiatives.

Re: Trump exempts phones, computers, chips from ‘reciprocal’ tariffs

#673

Post by AngryData »

jjav wrote: post #631
fjfaase wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The president has all the power that the congress and the senate gives him. Previous presidents were not given this much power. The bad guys are in the congress and the senate for not upholding the constitution.

I think the current state of affair has exposed a fundamental bug in the consitution. Sure, the US has three branches of government that are supposed to be checks and balances on each other. Which has, mostly, worked really great. But turns out there is no way to enforce this. If we get a president that doesn't care about any of this and is happy to ignore everyone else, there isn't actually any way to enforce the se…

I don't think this is a problem with the constitution as it was actually written, this is just the cumulative effect of states, congress, and the judicial branch ceding power to the executive for decade after decade, with a decent dose of political corruption, because both parties thought it was convenient for when they are in power. People had been warning about it the whole time and every time it happened they were either ignored as paranoid or grouped up as conspiracy theorists.

Re: Trump exempts phones, computers, chips from ‘reciprocal’ tariffs

#674

Post by CSMastermind »

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #660
cranium wrote: post #580

The 145% tariff is so absurd I wouldn't be surprised to see cheap chips glued to the item to exploit the exceptions. "Oh yeah, that's not a shoe: it's the protective case for an ESP32 WiFi router".

For those who think this is ridiculous, this happens already on a regular basis with batteries to get around the regulations and fees around shipping them. Instead of getting the battery in the mail you’ll get a cheap flashlight in the mail with a battery inside it.

Famously, people got in trouble for importing "ice tea mix" to get around sugar tariffs.

Re: Trump exempts phones, computers, chips from ‘reciprocal’ tariffs

#675

Post by xbmcuser »

cranium wrote: post #580

The 145% tariff is so absurd I wouldn't be surprised to see cheap chips glued to the item to exploit the exceptions. "Oh yeah, that's not a shoe: it's the protective case for an ESP32 WiFi router".

The moment they put tariffs I was thinking they just supercharged smuggling and illegal border crossing with multi trillion dollar market.

Re: Trump exempts phones, computers, chips from ‘reciprocal’ tariffs

#676

Post by geysersam »

cardanome wrote: post #648
bflesch wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO your logic is all wrong. Comparative Advantage ist just applied "opportunity cost" of time. Humans and resources are unique, everyone has their theoretically "optimal" use of time in terms of economic output. The invisible hand of the market will let you know what aspect of your output is most valuable for others. The benefit of this invisible hand is that the "economy" as a whole does not need to know how good t…

It is good that you paid attention to economics 101 but we don't live in the 19th century anymore and economic theory has progressed a bit since Ricardo. We don't have pure free market economies. Neither in China nor in the USA nor anywhere else. The see big monopolistic companies dominating most markets. We see an closer interlink between state and private corporations. Even just with the currency manipulation that…

Absolutely agree. It's ridiculous that low wage labor is considered a "comparative advantage". It's an advantage to capital owners perhaps, but certainly not to workers. And like you said, advantages are not static.

In my opinion it's intrinsically valuable to have a diverse regional economy. Culture and economy are fundamentally inseparable, imagine a society where everyone is doing the same thing because of "comparative advantage" making them 10% more efficient than the other country... What poverty!

Re: Trump exempts phones, computers, chips from ‘reciprocal’ tariffs

#678

Post by jajko »

Aurornis wrote: post #524
righthand wrote: post #95

Why is no one highlighting how this is repeating history 8 years ago? I don’t get it, there’s this magical reporting gap where all of this is new strategy but it’s the exact same strategy. Why don’t we acknowledge this instead of searching for some new angle? Here are a bunch of links from 2018/2019: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/12/13/apple-dodges-iphone-tariff-a... https://www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/investing/t052-s00…

> Why is no one highlighting how this is repeating history 8 years ago? Because it’s not? The tariffs which are currently in effect or soon to go into effect are so far out of line with anything in modern history that there is no comparison. The reason everyone is panicking is because people expected more of the same as 8 years ago but instead we got something massively worse, without a hint of cohesive strategy, and…

Lol there was no 'cohesive strategy' 8 years ago, what the heck you wtite about. You suffer some memory loss?

He was chaotic, he was doing ego polishing reality show from day 1. The only difference was a 'barrier of sanity' that people around him formed, dampening his bipolar outbursts into more reasonable actions (or lack of thereof, often without his knowledge). He eventually fired all of them, forgot that part?

Now he has just pure yes men around him, licking his ass and patiently waiting for him to die or get killed (vance has a look and behavior of patient calculating sociopath for example, he may be much worse if given chance)

Re: Trump exempts phones, computers, chips from ‘reciprocal’ tariffs

#679

Post by FooBarBizBazz »

Renaud wrote: post #591
owenversteeg wrote: post #247

I’m not seeing anyone discuss this here, so I figured I’d raise an important point: this style of tariffs is crushing for US manufacturing. While a universal tariff with no exceptions incentivizes domestic manufacturing, a selective tariff with specific industry exceptions is absolute poison. You might think, as the authors of this exemption did, “well then we will exempt computer parts.” Then people will simply impo…

Universal import taxes on everything make no sense. If you want to protect strategic production, you apply selective tariffs to support that local production while ensuring it can ramp up and import what it needs until it becomes self-sufficient. Most countries, the US included, have used selective tariffs for this purpose. Applying a blanket tax on every type of import just increases inflation, as you can't possibly…

Really the way to do it, AFAIK (say, per How Asia Works), is to apply selective subsidies, not tariffs, and to subject the subsidized industries to substantial export discipline. That's what gets you South Korean world-beaters. Autarkic tariffs just get you Indian industry, where consumers have learned that the few goods marked "export quality" are superior.

And, I don't want to be partisan about this stuff, but, that's basically what "Bidenonics" was trying to do, in a small way: Subsidize a few industries like semiconductors and batteries and solar panels, that were deemed strategically important.

Whether the US was ever going to be as serious as South Korea or Japan about this remained to be seen. Frequently the subsidies seem to be handed out and then nothing happens (e.g., "Gigafactory" in Buffalo, NY).

Re: Trump exempts phones, computers, chips from ‘reciprocal’ tariffs

#680

Post by _heimdall »

bloopernova wrote: post #664
_heimdall wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't need to abolish the presidency or entirely change our system for a parliamentary model. We do need to drastically shrink the executive branch and its powers though. I've found it interesting that so many are seriously concerned with what Trump is doing but not why the executive branch has the authority to do it in the first place.

I was thinking that the US marshals need to be the enforcement arm of the courts. But I am not sure if that would help much in the current situation. Maybe police and federal enforcement agencies should be solely under Congress? At least then senior people can actually get fired for obeying unlawful orders from the executive.

The judicial branch is meant only to provide clarify of laws on the books. I'm not sure what they would do with an enforcement agency, and I'd be worried about what that would do with regards to the types of people attracted to those judicial positions.

The legislative branch already has a lot of power. I'd be very concerned giving them the direct control, or even shared control, over enforcement. They should be controlling enforcement through legislation.

That leaves the executive, and personally I don't see a problem with enforcement living there. That is a very good reason to otherwise limit the authority of the executive branch though, and why executive orders as used today shouldn't be legal (they effectively are a legislative branch with the enforcement agencies).

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