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Google is winning on every AI front

thealgorithmicbridge.com

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Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#671

Post by riku_iki »

bitpush wrote: post #663
riku_iki wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its just my personal non-tech network is switching to chatgpt on many accounts. Your network can be different of course.

Those folks dont make any money unfortunately, but it is still a drag on Open AI. So sooner or later, Open AI will have to find a way to make money (and nope, all these people wont pay anything) and by that time, Open AI would probably run out of time. Ask snapchat.

I think sooner or later LLM providers will force to introduce Ads, and those folks are Ok with ads, since they used google search.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#672

Post by light_triad »

joenot443 wrote: post #648
h2zizzle wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could also be seeing waves of various astroturf campaigns.

Personally, I don't really think there's a team at Google, nor at OpenAI, paying for "astroturfing" on sites like HN. What are the rough steps through which you see this working? I see people talking about "astroturfing" all the time without much explanation on the mechanisms. So roughly, there are employees paid solely to post on social media like HN trying to push the needle in one direction or another?

You sound like you're from the Google team ;)

Rough steps:

1. Monitor keywords

2. Jump in to sway conversation

3. Profit

I'm not saying this is happening. Purely hypothetical.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#673

Post by light_triad »

sva_ wrote: post #610

It is sort of funny to me how the sentiment about whoever seems to be leading in ML changes so frequently (in particular here on HN.) A couple months ago it felt like people were sure that Google completely fucked it up for themselves (especially due to the fact that they invented the transformer but didn't productize it themselves at first.) For a short while, Claude was the best thing since sliced cheese, then Deep…

AI is changing fast! And to be fair to the model companies, they have been releasing products of (mostly) increasing quality.

It really depends what your use case is. Over the range of all possible use cases this has been the narrative.

I tried Google's model for coding but it kept giving me wrong code. Currently Claude for coding and ChatGPT for more general questions is working for me. The more exotic your use case, the more hit or miss it's going to be.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#674

Post by sandspar »

joenot443 wrote: post #648
h2zizzle wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could also be seeing waves of various astroturf campaigns.

Personally, I don't really think there's a team at Google, nor at OpenAI, paying for "astroturfing" on sites like HN. What are the rough steps through which you see this working? I see people talking about "astroturfing" all the time without much explanation on the mechanisms. So roughly, there are employees paid solely to post on social media like HN trying to push the needle in one direction or another?

There doesn't need to be a team. Individuals can act according to personal incentives and still create coordinated behavior. Look at flocks of birds. Each bird acts for itself; together they move in unison.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#676

Post by alganet »

riku_iki wrote: post #671
bitpush wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those folks dont make any money unfortunately, but it is still a drag on Open AI. So sooner or later, Open AI will have to find a way to make money (and nope, all these people wont pay anything) and by that time, Open AI would probably run out of time. Ask snapchat.

I think sooner or later LLM providers will force to introduce Ads, and those folks are Ok with ads, since they used google search.

Ask llama to recommend you a pair of sunglasses, then look to see if the top recommendation by the LLM matches a brand that has advertisement association with the creator of llama.

Soon we will start seeing chatbots preferring some brands and products over others, without them telling that they were fine tuned or training biased for that.

Unless brand placement is forbidden by purging it from training data, we'll never know if it is introduced bias or coincidence. You will be introduced to ads without even noticing they are there.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#677

Post by noname120 »

indigodaddy wrote: post #623

"They're also small, which makes them perfect for edge applications and phone integration." - you can't locally install or onprem Gemini right, so why does small make it better for edge applications, essentially because small means light and fast, so it will respond quicker and with less latency? Requests are still going out over the network to Google though right?

You probably missed the news: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43632049

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#678

Post by reportgenix »

codelord wrote: post #31

As an Ex-OpenAI employee I agree with this. Most of the top ML talent at OpenAI already have left to either do their own thing or join other startups. A few are still there but I doubt if they'll be around in a year. The main successful product from OpenAI is the ChatGPT app, but there's a limit on how much you can charge people for subscription fees. I think soon people expect this service to be provided for free an…

valuable information

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#679

Post by riku_iki »

alganet wrote: post #676
riku_iki wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think sooner or later LLM providers will force to introduce Ads, and those folks are Ok with ads, since they used google search.

Ask llama to recommend you a pair of sunglasses, then look to see if the top recommendation by the LLM matches a brand that has advertisement association with the creator of llama. Soon we will start seeing chatbots preferring some brands and products over others, without them telling that they were fine tuned or training biased for that. Unless brand placement is forbidden by purging it from training data, we'll nev…

Its trivial to check if any brands mentioned in the response before returning it to user, and then ask LLM to adjust response to mention brand who paid for placement instead.

Re: Google is winning on every AI front

#680

Post by alganet »

riku_iki wrote: post #679
alganet wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask llama to recommend you a pair of sunglasses, then look to see if the top recommendation by the LLM matches a brand that has advertisement association with the creator of llama. Soon we will start seeing chatbots preferring some brands and products over others, without them telling that they were fine tuned or training biased for that. Unless brand placement is forbidden by purging it from training data, we'll nev…

Its trivial to check if any brands mentioned in the response before returning it to user, and then ask LLM to adjust response to mention brand who paid for placement instead.

What I described happens in the raw offline model too. Those don't have post-inference heuristics such as those you described, implying the bias is baked in the training data or fine tuning steps.
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