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Apple needs a Snow Sequoia

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Re: Apple needs a Snow Sequoia

#671

Post by kbolino »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #292
joezydeco wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My group makes a custom executable to reflash a hardware device we produce. We build it for Linux and Darwin. Trying to get the program to work with our Mac users has become harder and harder. These are all internal developers. Enabling developer mode and allowing Terminal execution isn't enough. Disabling the quarantine bit works - sometimes - but now we're getting automated nastygrams from corporate IT threatening…

There's extensive documentation. Examples: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/code-sign... https://developer.apple.com/documentation/security/notarizin... There are dedicated sections of the developer web forums: https://developer.apple.com/forums/topics/code-signing-topic https://developer.apple.com/forums/topics/code-signing-topic... ...and there's an apple developer support person, Quinn, who appea…

Can you sign and notarize your own software made for internal use with your own infrastructure? If so, then this is a valid response. If not, then this is an irrelevant response because the issue is going through Apple, not the process being difficult or undocumented. If I own the device, then I should be free to decide what the sources of authority over it are.

Edit: I haven't tested it yet, but it does seem that you can sign an executable with your own certificate (self-signed or internal CA-issued) however you can't notarize it. Right now, notarization is only required for certain kinds of Apple-issued developer certificates, but that may change in the future.

Re: Apple needs a Snow Sequoia

#672

Post by troupo »

dijit wrote: post #531
troupo wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stadia's impact on gaming in general is next to zero. And given that the vast majority of gaming on Linux is happening via Proton, its impact on gaming on Linux is similarly next to zero.

What games have you made to justify this statement? I worked closely with productions using proprietary game engines, I feel qualified in stating that Stadia had an outsized impact on our development process in a way that helped proton succeed. That you don’t see it as an end user, is exactly my point.

> What games have you made?

You don't have to be a chef to judge what's coming out of the kitchen.

What is the objective impact of Stadia which at its height had a whopping 307 titles [1]? At the time of writing ProtonDB lists 6806 titles as "platinum, works perfectly out of the box" and 4839 games as "gold, works perfectly after tweaks". Steam Deck alone has almost 5x the number of games with "verified" status [2].

What games are being made for Linux thanks to Stadia, and don't just target DirectX and run through Proton? How many Stadia games were ported to Linux thanks to Stadia?

Also, to put things into perspective. Proton was launched in 2018. Stadia was launched in 2019.

In 2019 there were already over 5000 games that worked on Proton. [3]

In 2022 there already were more games with verified status for Steam Deck than there were games for Stadia, and 8 times more games verified to work by users [4]. Stadia shutdown was announced half a year after the article at [4].

Stadia had zero impact on gaming in general and on gaming on Linux in particular as judged by the results and objective reality. Even the games you showed as examples don't support Linux, only target Windows, and are only playable on Linux through Proton [5]

> I feel qualified in stating that Stadia had an outsized impact on our development process in a way that helped proton succeed.

> That you don’t see it as an end user, is exactly my point.

It's strange to claim things like "when Proton came along" when Proton was there before Stadia and already had over 5k games working in the year when Stadia only just launched.

It's strange to claim outsized impact on development process when there are no outcomes targeting anything even remotely close to Linux development, with studios targeting Windows as they have always done.

It's strange to claim Stadia had outsized impact when none of the work translated into any games outside Stadia. When Stadia did not contribute any significant work to the tech that is running Proton. In 2022 they even started work on their own emulation layer that went nowhere and AFAIK never contributed to anything [6]

It's strange to claim that "it's actually Stadia that made Linux gaming feasible" when there's literally no visible or measurable impact anywhere for any claim you make. Beyond "just trust me".

[1] According to https://www.mobygames.com/platform/stadia/ According to wikipedia, at the time of shutting down it had 280 games, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Stadia_games

[2] https://www.protondb.com/dashboard

[3] https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2019/07/a-look-over-the-proton...

[4] https://www.protondb.com/news/how-many-games-work-on-linux-a...

[5] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43503018

[6] https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2022/03/google-talk-about-thei...

Re: Apple needs a Snow Sequoia

#673

Post by troupo »

dijit wrote: post #464
pjmlp wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how many of those ported game engines are actually making a different on GNU/Linux gaming today? There is certainly such thing as native, one thing is the platform where the APIs were originally designed for and battled tested, and the other is other platform emulating / translating them, by reverse engineering their behaviours with various degrees of success. Valve's luck is that so far Microsoft/XBox Gaming has…

> So how many of those ported game engines are actually making a different on GNU/Linux gaming today? Not sure, Unreal Engine is pretty popular though and Snowdrop is increasingly common for Ubisoft titles. https://www.protondb.com/app/2842040 https://www.protondb.com/app/2840770/ https://www.protondb.com/app/365590

> https://www.protondb.com/app/2842040

Star Wars Outlaws

Natively Supports: Windows only

> https://www.protondb.com/app/2840770/

Avatar: Frontiers of Pandora

Natively Supports: Windows only

> https://www.protondb.com/app/365590

Tom Clancy’s The Division

Natively Supports: Windows only

----

You were saying?

Re: Apple needs a Snow Sequoia

#675

Post by troupo »

pjmlp wrote: post #654
troupo wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Metal isn't really on pair with Vulkan and DirectX in terms of relevance for graphics programming As if Vulkan had relevance to graphics programming. > and WSL is better integrated and easier to use than Virtualization Framework. you don't need WSL on MacOS because, well, MacOS is already a *nix environment.

> As if Vulkan had relevance to graphics programming. It surely has on 80% of a mobile platform, and on a small handset from this little japanese games company. > troupo 3 hours ago | parent | context | flag | on: Apple needs a Snow Sequoia > Metal isn't really on pair with Vulkan and DirectX in terms of relevance for graphics programming As if Vulkan had relevance to graphics programming. > you don't need WSL on Mac…

> It surely has on 80% of a mobile platform,

And which platform brings in more money?

> and on a small handset from this little japanese games company.

And not on PS, not on XBox, not on PC (that is, no first-party support).

Re: Apple needs a Snow Sequoia

#676

Post by ToucanLoucan »

DidYaWipe wrote: post #372
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also while Apples software quality has definitely diminished over the years, Windows in the same period has utterly CRATERED. Like I get along fine with 11 for my gaming PC but with every single update one feature or another becomes notably broken.

Windows is indeed an execrable shitshow. Every aspect of it assaults the user with incompetence or outright hostility. First is the endless badgering to log in, LOG IN, LOGGGG INNNNN with an asinine Microsoft account. If you can tolerate that and actually get the OS running, you're wading through a wonderland of UI regressions and defects. The default hiding and disabling of options is infuriating. Try showing conten…

I can't say I've ever had HDMI audio mystery-disabled when I try and use it, that's for sure a new one for me. That said the entire audio stack is an utter fucking nightmare. Selecting sound devices usually works, unless the game/software you're using either isn't set up to know about it, or isn't being told by Windows, either or. Then of course there's the fun game you play having two HDMI displays where Windows will constantly re-enable one you've disabled because it doesn't have any fucking speakers on it.

Re: Apple needs a Snow Sequoia

#677

Post by cassepipe »

secstate wrote: post #245
cassepipe wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unified button that disguises as two different icons hiding other useful options You can only cycle windows in one direction even if you try to do some remapping Choosing keyboard languages hides a lot of options. Once you understand you need to click on English US to see more detailed options then you get them all, UK, Canadian... Then it's unclear which keyboard layout is currently selected and how to select one fr…

Default keybindings have Shift+Super+Tab doing reverse window cycling in GNOME. Just tried it. Also, which unified button masquerades as two icons? Keyboard layouts are a pain, but there are some solid extensions that clean the flow up and may be upstreamed into GNOME at some point. It's all opinions, but boy, compared to the mess that is macOS and iOS regarding discoverability ... I'll take GNOME any. day.

True ! So why can I only remap cycling window in one direction and not the other ... ?

The volume and power icons on the top right is actually one button and hides other option like screen lightning volume and wifi etc. If at list they had made a three vertical dots/stacked bars and is the convention for hamburger menus...

From what I heard GNOME devs do not like change and it sucks to be a GNOME extension developer, a quick google search seems to confirm that so it casts some doubt about them up-streaming any of them but maybe you know better. Has it ever happened to other extensions ?

https://discourse.gnome.org/t/developing-gnome-shell-extensi... https://www.reddit.com/r/gnome/comments/pvvku5/why_do_extens...

Haven't really used MacOS or iOS more that five minutes so I can only trust you on that.

On the other hand for example, it is very easy to remap CapsLock to Escape on MacOs. Just go to Setting --> Keyboard and you easily find the option. GNOME ? No, not in settings. Wait I have to use an app called gnome-tweak ? Ok it's in "Advanced keyboard otions" --> Opens a big list of loosely classified options. Oh well it was in miscellaneous category.

Re: Apple needs a Snow Sequoia

#678

Post by scarface_74 »

consteval wrote: post #646
scarface_74 wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it’s purely ideological without any real world difference? Are most people better off with Apple defaults? And it’s not because the problem is “difficult”. It’s because for 20 years it has been claimed that this will be the “year of Linux on the Desktop” and it’s never been good enough for most people.

It’s perfectly fine. KDE and Gnome are both now more cohesive, more intuitive, and less buggy than either Windows or MacOS. The problem with Linux is that, while it’s very good, it’s different. Nobody actually cares how intuitive something is, at least not in absolute. People will still say Windows is intuitive. Pretty much nothing in Windows, from the registry to COM to IIS to setting/control panel/computer manageme…

If I pick up a Linux laptop right now, how well will it handle low latency audio? How well will it handle power management? My graphics hardware? Getting WiFi to work reliably is still an issue.

Can I get a high performance Linux laptop with good battery life, fast graphics, that runs cool and silent?

Re: Apple needs a Snow Sequoia

#679

Post by hkpack »

jasonjayr wrote: post #202
hkpack wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that you're doing it on principle, but for a software development team, 99$/year is a really minuscule price to pay to be able to build / notarise / distribute software. Developers pay exorbitant amount of money for much lesser value, and the idea of putting your teammates at risk to stick it to apple is kind of sad bordering with negligence from a business POV.

Sure it's trivial, but it is tacit acceptance that you need permission to make a program on their platform. Permission that needs to be renewed year over year. Permission to earn a living on this platform. Permission that can be revoked for any reason, including being compelled by someone with more power than Apple.

It is permission to _distribute to others_, you can build and run on your own computer without a problem.

Once signed, binary will work forever, you only need active subscription when you need to re-sign / re-notarise.

Re: Apple needs a Snow Sequoia

#680

Post by whstl »

casey2 wrote: post #631
andrepd wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not Apple, it's capitalism. "Unlimited growth is the ideology of the cancer cell", yet for Apple (or any corporation), it's not good enough to sell 100,000,000 phones. Next year you must sell 105,000,000. And the year after 112,000,000 (not even 110 or your growth is stagnating). So you get rid of removable batteries so customers have to toss their phones away more often, you gimp other feature, you spend more m…

I'm sure everyone has seen this 100 times already but it really fits given modern advertising practice of every major company, especially in designing products to fit advertising plans. There are also entire "industries" designed to shield people who want to find quality content from big 'A' advertising. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGKsbt5wii0 For context John Sculley said "Apple was the marketing company of the…

I love how he uses the word “craftsmanship”, something that he understood quite well (considering how close he was working with people like Bill Atkinson, Andy Hertzfeld, Burrell Smith, etc).

Today engineers have to put up a fight to do anything resembling craftsmanship.

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