Zelensky's Ukraine stood and fought against Russia for 3 years. Trump's USA surrendered in 6 weeks.
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U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine
671–680 of 1001 posts
Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine
#672Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure what to think. Ukraine can't militarily defeat russia or reclaim its lost territory, and as long as it continues to try to do so, there will be war and the world will be less stable. But if a line is not drawn against russia, I think we have every reason to believe putin will continue to conquer more land over time. Russia is the source of instability, but it can't be defeated or reasoned with. What to d…
In theory West could offer something in exchange for peace, so that Russia will not want to break it, for example: withdrawing NATO forces from Eastern Europe, withdrawing nuclear weapon from Europe, lifting sanctions, paying a compensation for losses due to sanctions etc. There is actually a whole spectrum of options for negotiations.
The problem is any of those things are effectively a reward for Russia for starting the war and invading Ukraine in the first place. Why should Russia get any advantage out of the war that they 100% started?? And pay them compensation! What a suggestion!
Russia is a bully. What do you think will happen if we have to pay the bully off each time they start smashing up their neighbors stuff up or just making threats?
And as for withdrawing NATO forces - NATO is a purely defensive organization. Its purpose is to defend against just the sort of shit Russia has pulled with Ukraine. If Ukraine was part of NATO the war would not have happened.
NATO is not a threat to Russia. Never has been, never will be. This is equivalent to a local crime lord complaining about being threatened by the police station down the road and demanding that the police station shuts down.
Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine
#673Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you remember what happened when Russia tried to install missiles in Cuba? The USA put its foot down and was willing to have a nuclear war. Same thing is happening in Russia, making Ukraine part of NATO is just too close. Why is it so hard for people to understand this?
Except NATO is a defence organisation. Ask yourself why countries bordering Russia want to join.
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Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine
#674Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you remember what happened when Russia tried to install missiles in Cuba? The USA put its foot down and was willing to have a nuclear war. Same thing is happening in Russia, making Ukraine part of NATO is just too close. Why is it so hard for people to understand this?
Making Ukraine part of NATO is just something Putin made up, not an actual thing.
I recommend reading some of the diplomatic cables on Wikileaks
https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW3127_a.html https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08KYIV1144_a.html The Ukrainian president who was anti-NATO is the one that the Euromaidan deposed.
https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-scraps-nato-accession-plans/a-...
Here's France24's take in 2014 when Ukraine voted to abandon "non-aligned" status: https://www.france24.com/en/20141223-ukraine-parliament-vote... Russia’s annexation of the Crimean Peninsula and its support for the separatist insurgency appear partly rooted in fears that the Western military alliance could expand its presence on the Russian border.
Then in 2019 we have this: Ukraine President Signs Constitutional Amendment On NATO, EU Membership (Radio Free Europe, 2019) https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-president-signs-constitution...
Followed up by Zelensky doubling down on NATO later that same year: https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-president-promises-nato-refe...
And then Trump sending additional lethal aid to Ukraine at the end of the year: https://www.defensenews.com/congress/2019/12/04/trump-to-see...
My personal opinion is that these events in 2019 were the last straw for Putin. He probably made the decision to invade early in 2020....but had to pause those plans while the whole world grappled with COVID. It then took them into mid-2021 to get the ball rolling on staging their forces for invasion, and then they were delayed again due to Xi Jinping telling Putin to not fuck up his Beijing Olympics or he wouldn't get tacit support from the PRC. All of which meant that the early-2022 invasion was likely caused by NATO-related issues that were looking increasingly concerning 3 years earlier.
Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine
#675Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not sure what the point you are making is? Should we just keep going back in history and try to cherry pick events to blame and justify current conflicts? That can go on indefinitely and is why we keep having wars.
The current war started with the 2014 invasion by Russia . Claiming that the invasion of Ukraine by Russia is caused and justified by a thing which happened after and in response to that invasion is arguing for retrocausality. It is not "going back in history and cherry picking events" to point out when and how the current war started in a discussion of the causes of the current war , especially when an event that ha…
It started because of the western coup in Ukraine.
Reminds me of people who say Oct 7 started the “war” in Palestine.
Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine
#676Comments are disappointing for hacker news standard. This pause was predictable (I predicted it in Nov 2024). It's negotiation leverage to steer toward an immediate resolution of the war. An immediate resolution of the war cuts losses: Ukraine loses territory, but keeps its sovereignty. The challenge is that there aren't many other viable paths. An indefinite forever war, with high risk of a Ukraine state collapse, i…
What are the deeper reasons for the war? All I hear from talking heads is this is aggression from Russia to grab resources and potentially continue to expand their territories through conquest.
The deeper reason is that the Baltics are in a security conundrum. Russia is inherently insecure, and Europe doesn't know where Europe ends. For security - let's compare the Russian Federation and the US.
Russia is the largest country on earth (twice size of US) yet it has half the US population.
The US has two neighboring states and two oceans that border it (with strongest navy in the world). Russia has 14 neighboring states and several neighbor areas in frozen conflict. Russia has no oceans separating its adversaries.
In terms of history, Ukraine (and Belarus) have been the routes of choice for military invasions into Moscow.
As a result of this security situation, Russia (and the Soviet Union before it, and the Tsarists before them, ...) relies on having a neutral periphery as a buffer zone. Ukraine declared itself neutral in its constitution at the formation of the country as it split from the Soviet Union. In 2019 Ukraine stripped neutrality from its constitution and wrote in pursuit of NATO membership.
For Europe not knowing where it ends, just look at EU membership, potential membership, and statements evolving over the past several decades from officials about where Europe ends.
The proximal cause of the war, literally the day-by-day timeline leading up to the conflict, was the Biden Administration threatening to pull Ukraine in NATO, Russia stated this was a red line and that it would invade and destroy Ukraine rather than let that happen, and then Russia and NATO diplomacy failed to resolve the issue.
This is clearly what the war is about: it is what led day by day up to the conflict, Ukraine's president offered to withdraw NATO ambitions as the invasion began to passify it, the Istanbul Peace Agreements early in the war centered on resolving the topic, and the peace discussions now have centered on it.
Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine
#677Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah I think the whole thing was planned in Riyadh between Trump, Putin and MBS. Which makes one wonder what MBS's role is. My theory is that he will organize OPEC production cuts, designed to boost Russia's economy and crush Europe's.
Wouldn't that just accelerate Europe's transition to EVs? They could even import Chinese EVs to make oil mostly irrelevant in a year or so.
Europe is far more dependent on oil for industry and manufacturing than for simply transport. The high energy prices are killing the German manufacturing sector, while cheap Chinese imports will crush the domestic auto industry.
Terrible double blow that is enabling far right politics and populism.
Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine
#678Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not sure what the point you are making is? Should we just keep going back in history and try to cherry pick events to blame and justify current conflicts? That can go on indefinitely and is why we keep having wars.
> Should we just keep going back in history and try to cherry pick events to blame and justify current conflicts But, it is you that did just that. You picked up an event from the 1960's in a totally different continent, to justify Russian continued agressions against Ukraine. I answered by actually pointing out an event from 10 years ago that's directly related to this war.
Russia responded to a western coup on one of the 3 East Slavic nations (Russia Ukraine Belarus).
Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine
#679Earlier quoted context omitted.
They (the GOP, Democrats, national and intl intelligence agencies) all have blackmail on each other. It hasn't made sense to think about these issues purely on national lines for a long time - try thinking in terms of a large international mafia with various families and factions; held together by unspeakable secrets. Sarah Kendzior and Whitney Webb produce great writing about this, thoroughly sourced. For example, h…
Lmao, this is the dumbest conspiracy theory I’ve read in a while. National politicians are afraid of being murdered by the Mafia on Trump’s orders? Good grief. Even if you put the absurdity of that kind of thing aside, look at the actual facts. Trump burns through advisors and cabinet members on a nearly weekly basis, and many of those have gone on to become scathing critics of his. He has tons of vocal enemies from…
> National politicians are afraid of being murdered by the Mafia on Trump’s orders? Good grief.
Not what I said, or what Sarah said. But yes, politicians are getting threatened because of Trump. Politicians themselves report receiving hundreds of death threats; some of them seriously credible [0].
All Trump has to do is tweet, and people have their lives "turned upside down". They start getting death threats; even their boss gets threatened. And votes get changed around real quick. This is documented, on record - like Trump's connections... You might ask yourself why you never heard about it, and what else you never hear about.
> He has tons of vocal enemies from within the Republican Party, who are quickly sidelined or ousted but never harmed.
Drama which doesn't affect votes, or anything material, is best ignored as theater. Threats and theater - they do exist pal. They're very much part of politics, especially in the US, and have been for a long long time.
> Even if you put the absurdity of that kind of thing aside
It's not absurd at all. If you believe US politicians - and international politicians - don't get threatened, then you don't understand the stakes, or the amount of money involved, or the characters of these people.
> Once it became clear that Trump has tapped into an indestructible movement of American populist stupidity that isn’t going anywhere, anyone who wanted to have a job in Republican politics quickly figured out that there was only one way to do so: join the never ending Trump pep-rally.
And so Trump doesn't need or use blackmail, or threats of violence? Buddy. My guy.
0 - https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/feb/27/republicans-...
Re: U.S. pauses all military aid to Ukraine
#680Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think both are similar in that they obfuscate real discussion on the purpose of war and tradeoffs. If the goal is to be global police, that is a conversation worth having. Same if the goal is to show solidarity with our EU allies for its own sake. I think these other topics are manufactured consent.
This you? "I think the "wmd equivalent" is the idea that Russia will move on Berlin if they're not contained in Ukraine." Because now all of the sudden you are saying something totally different and nebulous 'world police' BS. Why are your trying to equate Europe dramatically and instantly shifting their spending and EU policy to some nebulous 'global police' comment instead of addressing your original point, that yo…
I am asking what the core purpose and rationale for USA involvement is, and saying that this should be the center of discussion, whatever it is. It seems like nobody can agree or articulate what this is in a coherent way.
Everything else is a sideshow and distraction.
I don't see how Europe spending 650 billion answers this question either. The US spending money because Europe is with no deeper logic elementary school thought.