Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

671–680 of 1001 posts

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#671

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

sunaookami wrote: post #119
ren_engineer wrote: post #90

the EU is becoming a parody >we've got to save democracy by restricting free speech and enforcing laws and regulations created by unelected officials

Ever since von der Leyen became president. Typical for her since she also tried the same shit in Germany.

The censorship initiatives in the west largely originate from the US „Blob“, the amalgamation of the State Department, Pentagon, CIA and the soft-power NGOs.

Mike Benz, a former insider, spends his days explaining how this works.

This is not the best introduction that he has done, but it is the latest space he recorded on the Telegram affair:

https://x.com/mikebenzcyber/status/1827514567884255430

Update: there will be a part two on the „The Geopolitics of Telegram & who is really after Pavel Durov“ 1am ET tonight.

This is going to be one of the best sources of background info on the subject. This is not some random conspiracy theory hack, I promise.

https://x.com/mikebenzcyber/status/1827550903324598354

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#672

Post by mediumsmart »

croes wrote: post #658
ein0p wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main problem with Telegram is it’s not subject to Western surveillance and censorship. Best I can tell, it’s also not subject to Eastern surveillance and censorship which is why it was (unsuccessfully) banned in Russia in 2018. As of right now, this is one of the few places where you can find true information about WW3 which is currently ongoing in Ukraine. This is true of all sides of the conflict: the only trul…

And how to you find the true uncensored information between all the propaganda on telegram?

That’s easy. You pick a channel that agrees with your general view of your world.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#673

Post by ein0p »

croes wrote: post #658
ein0p wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main problem with Telegram is it’s not subject to Western surveillance and censorship. Best I can tell, it’s also not subject to Eastern surveillance and censorship which is why it was (unsuccessfully) banned in Russia in 2018. As of right now, this is one of the few places where you can find true information about WW3 which is currently ongoing in Ukraine. This is true of all sides of the conflict: the only trul…

And how to you find the true uncensored information between all the propaganda on telegram?

You look at both sides and try to get some nuggets of truth out of that mountain of bullshit by checking what doesn’t line up. Thing is, though, if you only look at the mainstream media, you can’t even figure out what’s bullshit - the conflicting narratives are suppressed so well that editors of Pravda would blush.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#674

Post by kaba0 »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #380
ren_engineer wrote: post #90

the EU is becoming a parody >we've got to save democracy by restricting free speech and enforcing laws and regulations created by unelected officials

[flagged]

Free speech is not unrestricted speech, nor freedom from consequences. The market is also not free when it’s uncontrolled, that would just result in blatant manipulation.

And hate speech is a serious crime, not sure why you believe otherwise. In many aspects, most EU countries have much freer speech than the US.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#675

Post by pixxel »

api wrote: post #514
sva_ wrote: post #510

It's all just speculation here. Maybe the French gov knows some stuff we don't. I always found that guy's story of living 'in exile' from Russia a bit suspect. And now Russian government officials are calling for his release. Need more information to make any kind of judgement. What I'm pretty sure of now is that this probably has nothing to do with encryption.

Telegram encryption is off by default and is a joke compared to Signal and others. This has nothing to do with encryption. I could list a dozen E2E encrypted things in common use that are all legal and online. It has nothing to do with ordinary sorts of “bad” content either like hate speech or crypto scams or whatever. All of that can be found in abundance in many places, all of which are still online. This is about…

> Don’t know, will have to wait and see.

You should have started and finished with this.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#676

Post by topspin »

jasonvorhe wrote: post #442

Use the CEO as lever to gain control over a Russian controlled medium used to deliver unfiltered information about a lot of ongoing conflicts right now. Can't have that when you're hell bent on war.

> Russian controlled medium

There are a large number of highly active Ukrainian channels on Telegram, all about as anti-Russian as you would expect. There are Ukrainian government ministers operating channels on Telegram. How does that occur on a "Russian controlled medium?"

I don't speak either Russian or Ukrainian. I know none of these channel operators. Yet I've been granted approval on a number of "private" Ukrainian channels. Certainly a Russian could as well. Why wouldn't Russia's state actors, given that they enjoy "control" of the medium, shut it all down?

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#677

Post by throw310822 »

anigbrowl wrote: post #560
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Free speech is not something they value. Individual rights aren’t valued. Nonsense. Of course Europeans value those things, but they're also mindful of the fact that such freedoms can be abused, sometimes with catastrophic consequences.

Of course people who don't value much free speech say that they're mindful of the fact that freedom can be abused etc. Nobody will ever say "yes I like censorship because I am a reactionary".

In general, remember that villains almost always justify their action as necessary or just- only in movies their stated motive is obviously egoistical.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#678

Post by croes »

mediumsmart wrote: post #672
croes wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how to you find the true uncensored information between all the propaganda on telegram?

That’s easy. You pick a channel that agrees with your general view of your world.

So echo chambers

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#679

Post by 331c8c71 »

astrobe_ wrote: post #668
apopapo wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you endorse governments from the middle-east being in their right to delete anything they see as "illegal" because they are blasphemous for example?

National laws are largely based on the local morals; for instance in Europe breath is more or less indecent to show in public. A woman being topless on the beach, even in France, could be arrested, in theory (in practice it would just be "please put on some cloth, madam"). The laws are (usually) defined by the people of a country, based on their idea of morality, and are totally in their right to reject blasphemous s…

> in Europe breast is more or less indecent to show in public.

There is no single "Europe". I have seen many women sunbathing topless in Denmark - it seems to be totally acceptable there. Haven't seen that in France - but it has a very strong nudist culture dating back at least to the 60s. Some of these nudist beaches are actually famous e.g. Cape d'Agde.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#680

Post by entropyneur »

llm_trw wrote: post #174
mdhb wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A French citizen running a service in France is going to be subject to French laws and can expect to be arrested when they step into the country of France if they have charges pending. This isn’t some grand conspiracy theory.

>A ~French~ Chinese citizen running a service in ~French~ Chinese is going to be subject to ~French~ Chinese laws and can expect to be arrested when they step into the country of ~French~ Chinese if they have charges pending. >This isn’t some grand conspiracy theory. Funny that when the wrong country does it it's tyranny. When a Western country does it it's the rule of law. Especially when they are the exact same thi…

There's nothing funny or wrong about this argument. In a democracy, law is a community consensus. In a tyranny it's just a rule set up by the tyrant for everyone to follow (but never followed by the tyrant himself and his gunmen).

That said, even in democracy a law can be bad, and likely is in this case.

Post reply on HN