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Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

construction-physics.com

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Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#671

Post by lazide »

akira2501 wrote: post #232
dubcanada wrote: post #32

If there is one industry that is the most resistant to change, it's the construction industry. There are still people who have been roofing for 50 years and refuse to change a single thing they do and learned 50 years ago. Saying a bunch of glulam will solve the issue is just incorrect. Wood is fantastic material. But using half a forest to build a 2000sqft house is certainly not the direction we should be going, we…

> it's the construction industry. Any industry that warranties it's work. They're far less likely to take on new and disruptive technologies if there's no guarantee they're going to be supported for the necessary amount of time. > we should be finding ways to build with 1/2 the amount of wood we currently use. Different houses have different requirements. Some roofs see snow, others don't. Some roofs see hurricane wi…

Also - warranties their work, it’s expensive to build/replace, has high damages if it fails, and is exposed to the elements and unpredictable animals/weather.

Frankly it’s shocking they try anything new at all.

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#672

Post by fsckboy »

dubcanada wrote: post #32

If there is one industry that is the most resistant to change, it's the construction industry. There are still people who have been roofing for 50 years and refuse to change a single thing they do and learned 50 years ago. Saying a bunch of glulam will solve the issue is just incorrect. Wood is fantastic material. But using half a forest to build a 2000sqft house is certainly not the direction we should be going, we…

>refuse to change a single thing they do and learned 50 years ago

they weren't using nail guns 50 years ago, and they surely are now.

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#673

Post by democracy »

lispisok wrote: post #651

People debating about what kind of housing to build are getting ahead of themselves. The housing crisis is intentional. Homeowners demand the value of their home keep going up and they vote. They way to do that is to keep supply lower than demand. The first step to fixing the housing crisis isnt to figure out what kind of housing to build, it's to convince enough of the voting population there is a housing crisis tha…

if this is true won't market forces attract more builders? If there is no promise of a healthy profit (and with growing material prices worldwide you can't keep property prices flat) - there won't be a lot of construction? If anything you need to address construction materials shortage/supply issues.

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#674

Post by nradov »

oceanplexian wrote: post #670
majormajor wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just in China. China is maybe the most interesting point of comparison with big cities in the US, though, since its cities are both much denser than most AND more sprawling than most. And I don't follow your second question. If the trains OR freeways are full of people who can't afford to live closer to their jobs and have hours-long commutes, isn't that bad? And if it can happen even with extensive public transi…

China isn't even remotely comparable to the USA. The urban mega cities are a prop that the CCP puts on display for the world. There's a reason that China's GDP-per-capita lands somewhere between Kazakhstan and Cuba.I would know because I've been there. If you go to a random exurban part of China you're going to find people living in makeshift tin structures, a lack of running water, oxcarts used as serious transporta…

The SerpentZA YouTube channel is somewhat sensationalist, but it has good firsthand videos showing the real China from someone who lived there for years and is fluent in Mandarin. The reality is a lot darker than what most Westerners see.

https://www.youtube.com/@serpentza

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#675

Post by karlshea »

democracy wrote: post #673
lispisok wrote: post #651

People debating about what kind of housing to build are getting ahead of themselves. The housing crisis is intentional. Homeowners demand the value of their home keep going up and they vote. They way to do that is to keep supply lower than demand. The first step to fixing the housing crisis isnt to figure out what kind of housing to build, it's to convince enough of the voting population there is a housing crisis tha…

if this is true won't market forces attract more builders? If there is no promise of a healthy profit (and with growing material prices worldwide you can't keep property prices flat) - there won't be a lot of construction? If anything you need to address construction materials shortage/supply issues.

You can only build what the zoning allows, and that's what the issue is with SFH owners in big cities and how they vote. Many of them don't want to allow denser development in order to keep those market forces in their favor by keeping housing pricing high.

As soon as zoning here in Minneapolis was changed to allow for denser housing city-wide a lot of smaller multi-family units started construction almost immediately.

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#676

Post by shiroiushi »

Clubber wrote: post #666
lispisok wrote: post #651

People debating about what kind of housing to build are getting ahead of themselves. The housing crisis is intentional. Homeowners demand the value of their home keep going up and they vote. They way to do that is to keep supply lower than demand. The first step to fixing the housing crisis isnt to figure out what kind of housing to build, it's to convince enough of the voting population there is a housing crisis tha…

Another problem is a vast majority of people want to / have to live in a very few select places. We could alleviate housing costs by changing that as well; back to supply and demand. I hope that StarLink and WFH are big pieces of the puzzle that will move people away from mega-dense population centers. We certainly have the acreage.

>Another problem is a vast majority of people want to / have to live in a very few select places.

It's been like this since the dawn of civilization, and it isn't going to change. There's no substitute for physical proximity, unless you can invent the teleporter.

>We could alleviate housing costs by changing that as well; back to supply and demand.

No, you can't. You can't force people to want to live in the sticks.

>I hope that StarLink and WFH are big pieces of the puzzle that will move people away from mega-dense population centers. We certainly have the acreage.

Maybe you like staying at home all the time and never leaving your 40 acres, but other people actually like to go places, socialize, go out to eat, see cultural events, etc. You can't do that over a satellite internet connection.

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#677

Post by SoftTalker »

whartung wrote: post #157
ejb999 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, if I had to choose between buying a house built 50 years ago, or one today - I personally would take the older one. Nothing scares me more (relative to owning a house) than buying a brand new one. If it has been around for fifty years, it has been tested - may have some things wrong with them, but you usually know what you are dealing with and usually the skill was better and materials better. Heck, my pare…

Well we recently upgraded to a new build, selling off our 50 year old house. We had to relocated to a different area, because the only houses in our area were...50 year old houses. And swapping from one 50 year old house to another one didn't make a lot of sense to us. Mind, we had done remodeling, new kitchen, new baths, new roof, new windows, new HVAC, insulation, "more sound proof" dry wall, structural engineering…

The tubing is called PEX I believe and it seems to be what is used these days, replacing cemented PVC and soldered copper.

Some codes (commercial buildings?) may require copper but I believe PEX is used everywhere it can be, it's easy to work with, durable, and connections almost never leak.

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#678

Post by Loughla »

ilamont wrote: post #186

I am building a house in a rural area, where land is cheap. Building is not. Timber is certainly expensive, but you know what else costs a lot? All the other stuff, much of it subject to state building codes that get more restrictive every year. Asbestos survey, assessment, abatement: $10k Asbestos air monitoring: $1k Tipping fees: 20k Spray foam insulation: $27k Foundation $50k Solar: 40k (not including rebates/ince…

What rural area enforces building codes strictly?

And what market are you in where a double wide is 300k?

And why are you doing anything with asbestos if it's a new build?

There is a lot in this that doesn't really add up to me.

We didn't have to worry about code, because it's not enforced by the state, but local governments. We did build to code though.

A double wide was 125k fully installed. We chose to build a little smaller stick frame for 100k.

Asbestos. Um. Why?

And spray foam insulation is a terrible choice, unless the wall is already up. Why would you not do the much much cheaper blown in?

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#679

Post by aaron695 »

dubcanada wrote: post #32

If there is one industry that is the most resistant to change, it's the construction industry. There are still people who have been roofing for 50 years and refuse to change a single thing they do and learned 50 years ago. Saying a bunch of glulam will solve the issue is just incorrect. Wood is fantastic material. But using half a forest to build a 2000sqft house is certainly not the direction we should be going, we…

[dead]

Re: Mass timber is great, but it will not solve the housing shortage

#680

Post by kevingadd »

jghn wrote: post #253
kevingadd wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waste disposal. Construction and remodeling both produce huge amounts of waste and it needs to be disposed of in specific ways.

Huh. Have never heard that called a tipping fee. When we've had work done there's just a line item for dumpster/removal/etc

Yeah, I had to look the term up to make sure I was right. The terminology probably depends on where you live.
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