Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war • Hacker News Board

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#671

Post by rendall » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 12:54 PM UTC

rendall wrote: post #664

GordonS wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not at all what I said - are you commenting in good faith? We've also seen no credible evidence that Hamas hides weapons inside of schools, mosques or hospitals.

> "That is not at all what I said -" You literally did say that. In response to: >> "who deliberately positions military hardware such as rocket launchers in and around civilians and civilian infrastructure" You said: > "Gaza is a very dense, urban area, so it's kind of unavoidable." But ok, if you really are commenting in good faith then also explain why Hamas puts military hardware inside of schools, mosques and ho…

Video evidence:

Hamas Planted Explosives Inside A Gaza Kindergarten: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQefwUWJwz8

Hamas Fighting in Civilian Clothes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk7IKvIROXk

UN Report: Hamas probably raped Israeli women, some men, even corpses:

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/03/1147217

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#672

Post by bennyz » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 12:55 PM UTC

GordonS wrote: post #668

bennyz wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thousands of Palestinian hostages? What are you talking about? Please clarify, as I assume you are not talking about prisoners convicted of terror activities.

> convicted of terror activities Yes, such as "throwing stones" at armoured vehicles - truly despicable! Many are held without charge too. And many are held under "administrative detention", which means they can be held in a dungeon, without charge, forever . These are not the actions of a modern, progressive, democratic country. I'm sure that some are imprisoned for good reason, buy many are there for spurious reaso…

You are moving the goalposts and reaching. Administrative detention is used on Israelis too, this is not the argument here. Those released in the latest exchange and in the Gilad Shalit exchange were convicted, many of which had innocent blood on their hands. Hamas isn't looking to correct the Israeli justice system, and you are calling actual and attempted murderers hostages...

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#673

Post by hef19898 » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 12:56 PM UTC

bennyz wrote: post #666

GordonS wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why did they take hostages to begin with Hamas stated their aim very clearly - to have Israeli hostages to trade for the thousands of Palestinian hostages that are held in Israeli dungeons.

Thousands of Palestinian hostages? What are you talking about? Please clarify, as I assume you are not talking about prisoners convicted of terror activities.

I think OP osbreferring to the 160 children and over a thousand Palestinians held without charges in Israeli prisons as of April 2022. Just a guess so.

Not that it justifies the Hamas attack, but it goes a long way explaining it.

Source:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_prisoners_in_Isr...

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#674

Post by hef19898 » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 12:59 PM UTC

bennyz wrote: post #672

GordonS wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> convicted of terror activities Yes, such as "throwing stones" at armoured vehicles - truly despicable! Many are held without charge too. And many are held under "administrative detention", which means they can be held in a dungeon, without charge, forever . These are not the actions of a modern, progressive, democratic country. I'm sure that some are imprisoned for good reason, buy many are there for spurious reaso…

You are moving the goalposts and reaching. Administrative detention is used on Israelis too, this is not the argument here. Those released in the latest exchange and in the Gilad Shalit exchange were convicted, many of which had innocent blood on their hands. Hamas isn't looking to correct the Israeli justice system, and you are calling actual and attempted murderers hostages...

Way, way back there was an IDF officer who said, in TV, after having a Palestinian boys arm broken something along the lines of "he wont throw a stone with that arm any time soon".

I hope that this is not the standard we hold, because if it is, there is no moral ground anymore to stand on when it comes to denouncing terrorism.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#675

Post by rendall » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 12:59 PM UTC

GordonS wrote: post #662

rendall wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you know that Israel tried to give Gaza back to Egypt and West Bank back to Jordan? They refused. Palestinians are endless trouble. This is known throughout the Arab world. It's hardly an "occupation". Israel doesn't want it.

> Did you know that Israel tried to give Gaza back to Egypt and West Bank back to Jordan? This is revisionist history - Gaza was never even part of Egypt! [0] Netanyahu's plans for "Greater Israel" (which includes the West Bank and Gaza) also run contrary to this claim. > Israel doesn't want it Israel's actions say otherwise. And let's not forget that Israel continues to illegally occupy land in Lebanon and Syria - t…

> This is revisionist history - Gaza was never even part of Egypt

So confident and yet so wrong. This is literally history. Are you pro-Hamas because you don't know the history of the region, or do you not know the history region because you're motivated to ignore it where it contradicts your pro-Hamas narrative?

From whom did Israel seize control of Gaza in 1967?

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#676

Post by loceng » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 1:00 PM UTC

loceng wrote: post #266

adamckay wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For context, Major Paeta Hess-von Kruedener emailed [1] days before saying that Hezbollah were using his positions and the IDF was being forced to fire on them out of "tactical necessity". This isn't as clear-cut as you're attempting to paint it. 1 - https://web.archive.org/web/20061010012455/http://www.canada...

From the same article: A senior UN official, asked about the information contained in Maj. Hess-von Kruedener's e-mail concerning Hezbollah presence in the vicinity of the Khiam base, denied the world body had been caught in a contradiction. "At the time, there had been no Hezbollah activity reported in the area," he said. "So it was quite clear they were not going after other targets; that, for whatever reason, our…

*wasn't

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#677

Post by gryzzly » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 1:01 PM UTC

shprd wrote: post #319

bawolff wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Essentially that implies Israel will get shot at and not be allowed to shoot back. I suspect most Israelis would find that unreasonable. Israeli civilians don't like being killed anymore than Palestinian civilians do. The thing that usually prevents war is that both sides lose in the end. If only one side is allowed to shoot, why would the side being allowed to shoot ever stop? They would be getting all the benefits…

> Israel will get shot at and not be allowed to shoot back. The logic doesn't really follow What shots exactly? the missiles? Attack the launch sites. They're pretty clear as they expose themselves. Israel has 24/7 surveillance it shouldn't be a challenge. Can you support your claim by showing evidence that a hospital was used to launch missiles? You likely don't have evidence that Israel is targeting anything. It se…

Why did 500 Israeli soldiers die in Gaza from your perspective?

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#678

Post by wesselbindt » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 1:05 PM UTC

drc500free wrote: post #564

blurbleblurble wrote: post #6

I appreciate that this is on here and I hope we can collectively handle it. Tech isn't isolated from this situation, as difficult as it is to admit and talk about with civility and care. A US military software engineer even self immolated recently in protest of what's happening. I don't see what's happening in Gaza as being culturally particular to the specific identity groups involved here. It's a very human situati…

There is an interesting and delicate conversation about how a twenty-something engineer in the military ends up frequenting anti-military and anti-democracy subreddits. I think that fits in with hn. There is another interesting and delicate conversation about what that person thought about Gaza and about Israeli Jews, and where those ideas came from. He posted on Reddit that Hamas's stated intent to destroy Israel -…

> Hamas's claims that 30k people have died

That's not just Hamas's claim, that's the UN's claim, Amnesty international has this claim. There's plenty of independent thirds parties which hold this claim. The same cannot be said for the 12k militants claim, for which the idf has supplied no evidence, and is not repeated by independent third parties.

And beyond that, I don't think the belief that killing 1% of a population and displacing and injuring many more has much to do with any feelings towards any race. If the Belgians came into my country and killed 1% of everyone, I'd be pretty miffed, but that doesn't mean I have an ethnic hatred of Belgians.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#679

Post by GordonS » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 1:05 PM UTC

rendall wrote: post #664

GordonS wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not at all what I said - are you commenting in good faith? We've also seen no credible evidence that Hamas hides weapons inside of schools, mosques or hospitals.

> "That is not at all what I said -" You literally did say that. In response to: >> "who deliberately positions military hardware such as rocket launchers in and around civilians and civilian infrastructure" You said: > "Gaza is a very dense, urban area, so it's kind of unavoidable." But ok, if you really are commenting in good faith then also explain why Hamas puts military hardware inside of schools, mosques and ho…

> You literally did say that

Not literally, no. My comment was in response to the general case of "in and around civilians and civilian infrastructure" - that truly is unavoidable. You then stretched that to the inside of schools, mosques and hospitals.

I don't have time to go through the first two links, but if the first is from UN I'll certainly take it at face value. As for the second link, I'm sorry, but when the IDF has told so very many lies, and been caught in them so many times - the IDF simply cannot be trusted.

> White House Intelligence on Al Shifa Hospital

Who later admitted that their intel came from... the IDF! And Al Shifa!... the hospital where the IDF produced that ridiculous 3D rendering to show the hospital as some kind of high-tech "terror HQ - all designed to manufacture consent for attacking the hospital. And of course, it all turned out to be BS.

> The actions at Al Shifa hospital were described as constituting a war crime

If Hamas was using Al Shifa as a base for military opertions, those actions would arguably have constituted a war crime, yes. But as it turned out, there was no evidence.

I do have to say, it's kind of odd for proponents of Israel's ethnic cleansing/genocide to bring up war crimes. Especially since Israel has contravened 62 UN resolutions, and Netenyahu has publicly stated he will ignore international law.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#680

Post by ajsnigrutin » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 1:05 PM UTC

McNutty wrote: post #13

blurbleblurble wrote: post #6

I appreciate that this is on here and I hope we can collectively handle it. Tech isn't isolated from this situation, as difficult as it is to admit and talk about with civility and care. A US military software engineer even self immolated recently in protest of what's happening. I don't see what's happening in Gaza as being culturally particular to the specific identity groups involved here. It's a very human situati…

Strongly disagree. This platform for tech news should not become a place for political posts, nor even for posting regular news headlines. Yes we know that reddit sucks but stop trying to make hn into reddit. Also the community can't handle it, just look at the handful of comments we already have here.

I agree with this.

With many social networks, we have many platforms to discuss politics directly. IMHO, HN should keep to tech and not politics, with an exception of politics related to tech (eg. EU trying to destroy e2e encryption,... again,... government hacks, etc).

We have literally everywhere else to pick sides and point fingers.