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Three senior researchers have resigned from OpenAI

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Three senior researchers have resigned from OpenAI

#671

Post by keepamovin »

MacsHeadroom wrote: post #647
keepamovin wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying LLMs are. LLMs are not the only thing going on right now. But they do enable a powerful tool. I think the path to AGI is: embodiment. Give it a body, let it explore a world, fight to survive, learn action and consequence. Then AGI you will have.

My embodiment is my PC environment. I interact with the world through computer displays. There is no reason embodiment for AGI should need to be physical or mammalian-like in any way.

Strong disagree. But it may take me a while to elucidate and enumerate the reasons.

Re: Three senior researchers have resigned from OpenAI

#672

Post by keepamovin »

OOPMan wrote: post #654
keepamovin wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying LLMs are. LLMs are not the only thing going on right now. But they do enable a powerful tool. I think the path to AGI is: embodiment. Give it a body, let it explore a world, fight to survive, learn action and consequence. Then AGI you will have.

Nice try SkyNet

Hahaha! :) thank you. That is such a compliment hahaha! :)

Re: Three senior researchers have resigned from OpenAI

#673

Post by keepamovin »

anon291 wrote: post #580
berniedurfee wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I don’t think LLMs are a pathway to AGI. I think LLMs will lead to incredibly powerful game-changing tools and will drive changes that affect the course of humanity, but this technology won’t lead to AGI directly. I think AGI is going to arrive via a different technology, many years in the future still. LLMs will get to the point where they appear to be AGI, but only in the same way the latest 3D renderin…

> LLMs will get to the point where they appear to be AGI, but only in the same way the latest 3D rendering technology can create images that appear to be real. Distinction without difference

Disagree. Huge difference. In our tech power society, we often mistakenly think that we can describe everything about the world and equally falsely only what we can consciously describes exists.

But there is so much more than what we can consciously describe, to reality, like 10,000 to 1 — and none of that is captured by any of these synthetic representations.

so far. and yet all of that is or a lot of that is understood, responded to and dealt with by the intelligence that resides within our bodies and in our subconscious.

And our own intelligence arises out of that, you cannot have general intelligence without reality. No matter how much data you train it on from the Internet. It’s never gonna be as rich as for the same as putting it in a body in the real world, and letting them grow learn experience and evolve. And so any air quotes intelligence you get out of this virtual synthetic training is never going to be real. Itis always gonna be a poor copy of intelligence and is not gonna be an AGI.

Re: Three senior researchers have resigned from OpenAI

#674

Post by zx8080 »

ThrowawayTestr wrote: post #81
karmasimida wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am at lost. Not fear, just lost. Don't know what to do. Is my investment into their API still worth it? It feels very unstable at this moment.

Microsoft owns it. I honestly can not imagine trying to build a business on an API owned by Microsoft of all companies.

Do you use github?

Re: Three senior researchers have resigned from OpenAI

#675

Post by keepamovin »

SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #644
keepamovin wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying LLMs are. LLMs are not the only thing going on right now. But they do enable a powerful tool. I think the path to AGI is: embodiment. Give it a body, let it explore a world, fight to survive, learn action and consequence. Then AGI you will have.

Also continuous learning. The training step is currently separate from the inference step, so new generations have to get trained instead of learning continuously. Of course continuous larningin a chatbot runs into the Microsoft Tay problem where people train it to respond offensively.

Yeah, evolution multiple generations. Necessary for sure. Things have to die. Otherwise, there’s no risk. without risk, There’s no real motivation to live and without that there’s no emotion no motivation to learn and without that there’s no AGI.

Re: Three senior researchers have resigned from OpenAI

#676

Post by ksherlock »

LightMachine wrote: post #526
mirzap wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We could be witnessing another Apple-Jobs moment. He could go and pursue other interests, but I have a feeling that he deeply cares about OpenAI. If that's the case, he will be back eventually, just as Jobs returned to Apple repeatedly.

Completely different situation. Jobs couldn't just fundraise for his new Oranges company, lure all the talent out of Apple and outcompete it at that point. Sam can do that to OpenAI in a blink if that's his plans.

Steve Jobs did take a bunch of Apple employees with him to NeXT. All of them, no, but enough to build something better than what Apple had built.

Re: Three senior researchers have resigned from OpenAI

#677

Post by anon291 »

keepamovin wrote: post #673
anon291 wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> LLMs will get to the point where they appear to be AGI, but only in the same way the latest 3D rendering technology can create images that appear to be real. Distinction without difference

Disagree. Huge difference. In our tech power society, we often mistakenly think that we can describe everything about the world and equally falsely only what we can consciously describes exists. But there is so much more than what we can consciously describe, to reality, like 10,000 to 1 — and none of that is captured by any of these synthetic representations. so far. and yet all of that is or a lot of that is unders…

Developing an AGI is not the same as developing an artificial human. The former is achievable, the latter is not. The problem is many of the gnostics today believe that giving the appearance of AGI (ie having all the utility that a general mechanical intelligence would have to a human being) somehow instills humanity into the system. It does not

Intelligence is not the defining characteristic of humanity, which is what you're getting at here. But it is something that can be automated.

Re: Three senior researchers have resigned from OpenAI

#678

Post by collingreen »

angoragoats wrote: post #574
toomuchtodo wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could Microsoft not hire Sam (reporting directly to Satya) and those who departed and equip them with compute access and ancillary resources? It seems less of a lift than salvaging the OpenAI situation internally due to the emotions and politics involved, non competes not existing in California (broadly speaking), and the logistics of attempting to apply pressure to a 501c3 board with very little leverage. The value…

> It seems less of a lift I’ve seen this expression a lot recently and it baffles me. The word you are looking for is “effort,” or if you prefer adjectives, maybe something like “difficult.”

Idioms exist and probably always will. I personally think they add a pleasant amount of variety and depth to communication, and sometimes even add deep nuance/context (even if I don't like every set of jargon or slang).

Even your "looking for" is a metaphor since you technically can't "look" for words (except as a metaphor for literally reading in a dictionary?) but we all know exactly what you mean. Moreover, if we trimmed language down to a minimal set and always used extremely precise meaning that might be an even worse experience than the "corporate speak" you're frustrated by.

Maybe you can redirect your anger to the part of corporate speak that I personally find annoying which is not the phrases per se but the propensity for using lots of words to say very little and to avoid directly taking responsibility for things. Let's put a pin in that one for now though and get something on the calendar to hash that out so we can get on the same page and circle back when we have a better bird's eye view on the action items and the right person to be decider :)

On the other hand you could take up loglan/lojban and maybe end up happier? Especially if it resulted in fewer meetings and managers.

Re: Three senior researchers have resigned from OpenAI

#679

Post by amadeuspagel »

> Submitting information since paywalled links are not permitted.

This rule should be dropped. It's the reason that HN is dominated by low quality outlets. It's also in tension with another rule, which is that the original source of the article should be posted - the original source is usually an outlet that has the resources to do original research, thanks to a paywall.

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