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Greg Brockman quits OpenAI

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Re: Greg Brockman quits OpenAI

#671
post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>rightfully so How the hell can people be so confident about this? You describe two smart people reasonably disagreeing about a complicated topic

The LLMs of today are just multidimensional mirrors that contain humanity's knowledge. They don't advance that knowledge, they just regurgitate it, remix it, and expose patterns. We train them. They are very convincing, and show that the Turing test may be flawed. Given that AGI means reaching "any intellectual task that human beings can perform", we need a system that can go beyond lexical reasoning and actually con…

I agree with your premise.

You're right: I haven't seen evidence of LLM novel pattern output that is basically creative.

It can find and remix patterns where there are pre-existing rules and maps that detail where they are and how to use them (ie: grammar, phonics, or an index). But it can't, whatsoever, expose new patterns. At least public facing LLM's can't. They can't abstract.

I think that this is an important distinction when speaking of AI pattern finding, as the language tends to imply AGI behavior.

But abstraction (as perhaps the actual marker of AGI) is so different from what they can do now that it essentially seems to be futurism whose footpath hasn't yet been found let alone traversed.

When they can find novel patterns across prior seemingly unconnected concepts, then they will be onto something. When "AI" begins to see the hidden mirrors so to speak.

Re: Greg Brockman quits OpenAI

#672
post #670
post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is OpenAI responsible for protecting Microsoft’s stock price?

it's not that OpenAI is reponsible, but those board members have burned a lot of bridges with investors with this behaviour. the investor world is not big so self-serving interest would dictate that you at least take their interest in consideration before acting especially with something like waiting 1 hour before press release. No Board would want them now because they are posined apple for the investors.

Alternately, there may be mission-minded investors and philanthropists who were uncomfortable with Microsoft's sweetheart deals and feel more comfortable after the non-profit board asserted itself and booted the mission-defying VC.

We won't know for a while, especially since the details of the internal dispute and the soundness of the allegations against Altman are still vague. Whether investors/donors-at-large are more or less comfortable now than they were before is up in the air.

That said, startups and commercial partners that wanted to build on recent OpenAI, LLC products are right to grow skittish. Signs are strong that the remaining board won't support them the way Altman's org would have.

Re: Greg Brockman quits OpenAI

#673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

…”Woke”? What does that have to do with anything?

The AI doomerism that seems to underly the boards decision is just a non serious endeavor that is more virtue signaling than of substance.

The leap I’m making, but seems plausible given their chief scientist, is that the area of more research they want to focus on, rather than being a business, is on the super alignment theme.

Re: Greg Brockman quits OpenAI

#675
post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Military and intelligence technology is almost always ahead of the private sector. Governments have practically infinite money and resources to throw at the problem, including for recruiting and industrial espionage.

The only people who think this are people who have never been associated with a top research org. You NEVER hear about anyone, let alone the top people, going to work for government. They all get scooped up with big tech salaries or stay in academia. The military would need to be literally breeding geniuses and cultivating a secret scientific ecosystem to be ahead on AI right now.

The military does have a secret scientific ecosystem. Where do you think all of its advanced classified technology and cryptography comes from, the Hammacher Schlemmer catalog?

Re: Greg Brockman quits OpenAI

#676
post #665
post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the board is required to be a majority non-equity-holders precisely because an equity-holding board will not keep to their non-profit mission.

Since it's a private non-profit corp it might be whatever they want the rules to be. Arms-length neutrality on a board in silicon valley might still work like the rest as other comments have stated. Maybe someone can shed some light on it

I’m presuming it was put into place as part of creating the capped-for-profit entity, to make sure the for-profit couldn’t itself permanently misalign the non-profit’s board.

Re: Greg Brockman quits OpenAI

#677
post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The milieu in which Apple came to fruitition was full of young small microcomputer shops. So it's not like Woz invented the microcomputer for the masses - his contribution was critical for early Apple for sure, but the market had tons of alternatives as well. Without Apple II it's hard to say were Jobs and Wozniak would have turned out. Jobs is such a unique, driven figure that I'm fairly sure he would have created a…

I don’t believe the evidence backs this up. Woz is as much a one off as Jobs. Woz did two magic things just in the Apple II which no one else was close to: the hack for the ntsc color, and the disk drive not needing a completely separate CPU. In the late 70s that ability is what enabled the Apple II to succeed. The point is Woz is a hacker. Once you build a system more properly, with pieces used how their designers e…

I’ve always in my mind compared Apple 2 to the likes of Commodore 64, ZX Spectrum etc - 8 bit home computers. Apple 2 predates these several years ofc. You could most certainly create an 8 bit home computer without Woz. I haven’t really geeged out on the complete tech specs & history of these, it’s possible Apple 2 was more fundamental than that (and would love to understand why).

Re: Greg Brockman quits OpenAI

#678
post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t believe the evidence backs this up. Woz is as much a one off as Jobs. Woz did two magic things just in the Apple II which no one else was close to: the hack for the ntsc color, and the disk drive not needing a completely separate CPU. In the late 70s that ability is what enabled the Apple II to succeed. The point is Woz is a hacker. Once you build a system more properly, with pieces used how their designers e…

I’ve always in my mind compared Apple 2 to the likes of Commodore 64, ZX Spectrum etc - 8 bit home computers. Apple 2 predates these several years ofc. You could most certainly create an 8 bit home computer without Woz. I haven’t really geeged out on the complete tech specs & history of these, it’s possible Apple 2 was more fundamental than that (and would love to understand why).

Apple already had competitors back then in the likes of Franklin Computers. From a pure "can you copy Woz" perspective, it's not really even a question; of course you could. It was always a matter of dedication and time.

It's foolish for any of us to peer inside the crystal ball of "what would Jobs be without Woz", but I think it is important to acknowledge that the Apple II and IIc pretty much bankrolled Apple through their pre-Macintosh era. Without those first few gigs (which Woz is almost single-handedly responsible for), Apple Computers wouldn't have existed as early (or successfully) as it did. Maybe we still would have gotten an iPhone later down the line, but that's frankly too speculative for any of us to call.

Re: Greg Brockman quits OpenAI

#679
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting view - I, and many others presumably, would really like more insight into the source and nature of this speculation. I am not dismissing the possibility, far from it. It sounds very plausible. But are there any credible reports to back it up?

Speculation means: the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence. It's just a fun theory, which I think is plausible. It's based on my personal view of how Sam Altman operates, i.e. very smart, very calculative, makes big gambles for the "greater purpose".

I believe the comment was edited. The original comment made a mention of “seeing a lot of speculation” (paraphrasing) that piqued my curiosity.

The source of the speculation could further enhance or remove the probability of this being true. For instance, a journalist who covers OpenAI vs. a random tweeter (now X’er?) with no direct connection. It’s a loose application of Bayesian reasoning - where knowing the likelihood of one event (occupation of speculator and their connection to AI) can significantly increase the probability of the other event (the speculation).

Re: Greg Brockman quits OpenAI

#680
One should consider the fact that in this case the ex CEO is independently wealthy so clearly wasn’t doing it for the money. In addition he started it with partners as originally as a non profit. Finally he didn’t own any equity in the company despite being one of its core team and founding members, in addition to its very public face. How many of us in the same position as him could be controlled given that the only thing one has to lose is their ability to have influence over the other board members and he seems to have lost that anyway.
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