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HashiCorp adopts Business Source License

hashicorp.com

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Re: HashiCorp adopts Business Source License

#671

Post by rowanseymour »

pxc wrote: post #664
rowanseymour wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's not just visible... you can submit a PR if you like, and people do.

That's true. I think the taxonomy I'd really endorse is that the dichotomy is between free software and proprietary software, and within each there are a range of restrictions/guarantees (depending on your PoV: user or developer) that licenses might have. The broad distinction we care about within free software is copyleft vs. permissive, and one important one in proprietary software is source-available vs. closed-so…

I'd agree with that and honestly I don't really care too much how our stuff is described except that it seems inaccurate and unfair to apply something like "closed source" to a BSL project that takes PRs, and to insist that only code released an OSI licence can be of benefit to the world.

Re: HashiCorp adopts Business Source License

#672

Post by advaitruia »

Most of the comments on this thread make it appear that everyone will be affected by this change. The vast majority wont be affected at all.

This only affects people who are directly competing with hashicorp using hashicorps code. That sounds like a reasonable thing to want to prohibit.

Why should hashicorp have to spend tens of millions on product development only for a competitor to spend zero but be able to offer the same product? That sounds like a net negative for the whole industry as it disincentivizes R&D

Re: HashiCorp adopts Business Source License

#673

Post by falcolas »

CrimsonRain wrote: post #543
falcolas wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then, according to the meaning you are assigning these words, Windows must be open source. Which, of course, is obviously false. Which means the words have different meaning than what you ascribe to them. Source available means you can view the source code, by abiding to the terms the owner of the code sets. Closed source means you can’t change or redistribute that source, regardless of whether you are allowed t…

So where can I view windows 11 source code? Got a link?

Sure!

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/sharedsource/

Re: HashiCorp adopts Business Source License

#674

Post by ris »

jkodroff wrote: post #329
ris wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't wash. The DOM is a declarative model, but that doesn't mean that a javascript program can't be a horror story of side effects and improperly grasped execution order.

Pulumi resources are immutable in the program after you declare them. I don’t think this analogy really works. It’s not like CDK - Pulumi does not compile down to an intermediate format. When you write a Pulumi program you’re effectively creating a DAG in memory. The resources will be created in whatever order and with the maximum parallelization the dependencies allow.

I completely realize this, but simply the act of assembling that DAG in an imperative language adds a layer of cognitive load that is undesirable in something that's supposed to _declare_ configuration. Pulumi YAML looks tempting but it's simply not powerful enough to do a lot of things.

The other aspect of this is how it adds another requirement to your project - the setup and management of the language environment for the target language. Suddenly you've got another npm/bundler/etc. lockfile to keep up to date, your CI container images are double the size, your developers have another thing to fight homebrew to cooperate with...

Re: HashiCorp adopts Business Source License

#675

Post by orange-mentor »

_odey wrote: post #522

Considering this change I want to remove consul from my adoption strategy but I would still like to know of a replacement. Does anyone know of a similar tool? I'm interested only in the ability to manage environment variables with a web UI, and have processes restart gracefully on change, everything else consul provides is not of use to me. Any suggestions?

Etcd + one of the etcd desktop clients. There are a few template+restart tools as well. confd was one such project, iirc.

You'll end up writing some glue code.

Re: HashiCorp adopts Business Source License

#676

Post by mdaniel »

ezekg wrote: post #668
mdaniel wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I doubt they'd gain much adoption if it started with BSL at first place Adoption is one risk, https://github.com/hashicorp/terraform/graphs/contributors is an entirely different risk

Sentry, another BUSL licensed project, seems fine? https://github.com/getsentry/sentry/graphs/contributors

Given their exactly similar rug-pull stunt, in the context of what I was saying one would need to be able to load that link with date range restrictions showing before and after the rug pull, and (of course) exclude Sentry employees in order to show community contributions

I don't have the emotional energy to dig up such a report, but I'd be stunned if Sentry receives the same outside contribution rate as it did before

Re: HashiCorp adopts Business Source License

#677

Post by ezekg »

INTPenis wrote: post #617
ednxzu wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://github.com/hashicorp/vault/blob/main/LICENSE#L8-L11 Clearly states that you can use it in a production setup.

Thanks for pointing that out, so this must have been added by Hashicorp then.

That's the point of the BUSL. It defaults to non-production, use, but the licensor adds an Additional Use Grant that allows production use, which typically covers everything except competing with the licensor's cloud offering.

Re: HashiCorp adopts Business Source License

#679

Post by verve_rat »

notnmeyer wrote: post #620
vbezhenar wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My biggest issue with terraform is concept of state file. It seems that Pulumi continues on this model. I wish someone came up with innovative idea of not needing state file.

this is difficult for me to think about in the same way as trying to picture a 4th dimension. surely, state needs to be tracked somehow. what would an alternative even be?

Querying the cloud provider apis for current state? Go to the actual source of truth?

I'm sure there are complications i don't care to see here, but why is "this is what is actually deployed" not the default case?

Re: HashiCorp adopts Business Source License

#680

Post by ezekg »

mdaniel wrote: post #676
ezekg wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sentry, another BUSL licensed project, seems fine? https://github.com/getsentry/sentry/graphs/contributors

Given their exactly similar rug-pull stunt, in the context of what I was saying one would need to be able to load that link with date range restrictions showing before and after the rug pull, and (of course) exclude Sentry employees in order to show community contributions I don't have the emotional energy to dig up such a report, but I'd be stunned if Sentry receives the same outside contribution rate as it did befo…

You can scroll through that contributor list and see that each graph clearly shows most new contributors were post-2019...
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