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PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

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Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#671

Post by haldujai » Tue, May 02, 2023, 5:35 PM UTC

laserlight wrote: post #597

AlecSchueler wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would fall under Compulsive Sexual Behaviour Disorder[0] in ICD-10. [1] Pornography Addiction as a unique pathology is still not recognised but the issue is still young. We can see that it's an issue in that more than half of US divorce cases mention compulsive pornography usage. [2] You can read more about Pornography Addiction and what I mean by that over at Wikipedia. [3] You can see support groups for self-ide…

Compulsive Sexual Behaviour Disorder is not an addiction. The Wikipedia article that you cited begins with the following sentence: “Pornography addiction is the popular but unscientific[5] application of an addiction model to the use of pornography.” [5] Science Stopped Believing in Porn Addiction. You Should, Too. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/women-who-stray/2018...

You're a bit overly focused on semantics here and misinterpreting the rationale behind it.

Behavioral addictions are acknowledged in DSM-5 although this does not extend to compulsive sexual behavior at this time due to insufficient (yet growing) evidence to suggest similar neurophysiological mechanisms for a clinical textbook to label it as 'addiction' [0][2].

A recent review article breaks down the differences from gambling which is considered a behavioral addiction in DSM-5[1] and had not been in prior editions.

Whether or not CSB/hypersexuality is an 'addiction' in the medical sense is controversial amongst medical experts and essentially interchangeable with what a layperson considers to be an addiction and it is therefore very reasonable especially noting the overlap of salience, conflict and relapse[1].

Although there is insufficient evidence at this time to conclude either way whether diminished satisfaction has a similar mechanism to tolerance or lack of control has a similar mechanism to withdrawal there is also no strong evidence to support the argument that CSB is not an addiction and consequently they are currently treated as separate entities.

The pertinence of this is to not conflate conflicting/controversial expert opinion with generally regarded truth and therefore stating that parent is 'wrong' for believing it is addiction when many experts share the same opinion[3].

[0] https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/add.13297

[1] https://akjournals.com/view/journals/2006/11/2/article-p166....

[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4677151/

[3] https://akjournals.com/view/journals/2006/11/2/article-p210....

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#672

Post by Brendinooo » Tue, May 02, 2023, 5:35 PM UTC

m000 wrote: post #640

evandale wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The consequence of exposing a kid with a peanut allergy to a peanut can be death. Watching hardcore porn won't kill a kid.

Also, when you know something contains peanuts, you just stick a label "CONTAINS PEANUTS" on the packaging. You don't get the grocery store to ask everyone for a peanut allergy certificate before selling them a jar of PB, and also keep a log of who bought PB from them. And we already have something similar for porn sites, in the form of the "Are you over 18?" landing page banners.

That’s not the only thing people do to help allergic kids. I mentioned this in an adjacent thread.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#673

Post by bradlys » Tue, May 02, 2023, 5:36 PM UTC

George83728 wrote: post #663

bradlys wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guys, the incel “movement” is just dudes not getting laid and whining about it. It’s as old as time. They just happen to be on the Internet now and we’ve atomized society to the point where they’re super common. Most everyone is an incel until they’re not. After all - there’s a point where you want sex and aren’t getting it. Thus, an incel.

I think you're underselling the problem a bit. Before the internet, dudes who whine about not getting laid were generally not able to organize effectively into social echo chambers, at least to the same extent as today. In 'meatspace', people are exposed to other people who have a wide array of experiences, including older more experienced men who tell the young incels to quit bitching and go talk to women. Online, i…

Idk man - we've got all kinds of crazy ass ideas from back in the past. The idea of echo chambers seems to be way more easy to come by when you're living in a small town in the middle of nowhere and that's all the info you've got to go on. The internet is big and pushes all kinds of crazy shit your way.

Nowadays, you're constantly pushed all kinds of random shit. The usual incel rhetoric that I see is - there's not many women to talk to. Which is mostly attributed to the decline of social spaces due to again - whole atomized society stuff and late stage capitalism, yadda yadda. (If you haven't heard about it yet - just read some robert putnam)

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#674

Post by nathan_compton » Tue, May 02, 2023, 5:37 PM UTC

freedomben wrote: post #641

nathan_compton wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not have any such desire but imagine if you died and your kid was adopted by an abusive person you _would_ want the state to intervene. I'm as unsatisfied as you are about the current political situation in the United States, but the solution isn't to just demand the government withdraw. It is to actually engage _more_ politically and with an understanding of what the true responsibilities of the state are. T…

Meta comment: Your attempted use of markdown italics multiple times in your comment made it a little unreadable (I made this mistake for a long time myself). So pro-tip: On HN, italics are the * * rather than markdown's _ _

Thanks! Muscle memory.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#675

Post by nathan_compton » Tue, May 02, 2023, 5:38 PM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #622

nathan_compton wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not have any such desire but imagine if you died and your kid was adopted by an abusive person you _would_ want the state to intervene. I'm as unsatisfied as you are about the current political situation in the United States, but the solution isn't to just demand the government withdraw. It is to actually engage _more_ politically and with an understanding of what the true responsibilities of the state are. T…

So exactly how is “engaging politically” going to help when the majority viewpoint is already ignored because they know they can just appealed to their gerrymandered system? Republicans can completely ignore California and Democrats can completely ignore the Bible Belt (except GA which is now Purple) As far as what the state can do. Again as a parent, when my children were minors, we chose trusted family members to b…

There are ways to engage politically that do not depend on the legal structures in place.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#676

Post by AlgorithmicTime » Tue, May 02, 2023, 5:38 PM UTC

Mindwipe wrote: post #567

brightball wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s such a strange dichotomy in these conversations. 1. Porn shouldn’t be available to kids and it’s on the vendors legally to ensure that. 2. Porn should be unrestricted, it’s up to parents to do something about it. What I can’t understand is if the people in camp 2 are so unashamed of the porn advocacy then why is age verification such a big deal? If it’s not a big deal then verifying your age shouldn’t phase y…

> What I can’t understand is if the people in camp 2 are so unashamed of the porn advocacy then why is age verification such a big deal? a) It's economically implausible. Age verification is very expensive, and the requirement means that many sites that currently permit adult content will ban it rather than pay for verification (Twitter bans sex workers in Germany rather than pay for verification). b) It doesn't work…

[dead]

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#677

Post by sophacles » Tue, May 02, 2023, 5:38 PM UTC

bcrosby95 wrote: post #587

sophacles wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a free range kid (we just called it "being a kid" though). I feel bad for the kids of helicopter parents - the parent is hiding them from the world and blocking them from learning about the world as it exists and from discovering how they can/will interact with it. Then one day they cross a threshold of "number of days alive" and are expected to know how to live in the world they haven't ever been exposed to. S…

I agree. But if you aren't going to be a helicopter parent there needs to be some safety valves for when kids go too far off the rails. Calling a parent shitty because their kid does something they would prefer they didn't means we've all had shitty parents. Kids are individuals that gain preferences the minute they gain any sort of mobility and trying to reign everything in will backfire. I don't have strong opinion…

> Calling a parent shitty because their kid does something they would prefer they didn't means we've all had shitty parents.

Kids are going to do things their parents don't like. It's literally part of the kid learning about the world and themselves. It's shitty parenting to not know how to deal with this rather than trying to pass laws so that they can pretend the kid is just a miniature clone of their worldview.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#678

Post by maerF0x0 » Tue, May 02, 2023, 5:38 PM UTC

freedomben wrote: post #627

maerF0x0 wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With online porn, the scale and complications doing it put a much bigger burden This could be very easily done at the ISP level for the whole connection. (I'm talking best effort not a perfect implementation) Why not just block all "Adult" content by default and allow the buyer to opt in (both temporarily via password, and permanently). Then it would be a decision each household could easily make about what they wa…

Aside from the implications of turning an ISP into a decider of what you get to see rather than being a "dumb pipe," what about parents who want to view porn but don't want their kids to? Should they be forced to choose between 20 years of abstinence or potentially exposing their kids? The "household" is a pretty bad level at which to have to make these decisions, given that people of all age ranges share the same ho…

> what about parents who want to view porn but don't want their kids to

That was specifically addressed in my post. Temporary disable.

Remember that safe guards dont have to be perfect before being implemented. They just need to be better than the status quo. The status quo right now is 10 year old kids viewing porn and thinking that's what average intimate loving relationships look like.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#679

Post by PathOfEclipse » Tue, May 02, 2023, 5:39 PM UTC

wakannai wrote: post #328

Multiple issues with this. It starts off with arbitrary definitions of what pornography is ( https://le.utah.gov/~2023/bills/static/SB0287.html ): "nipple of the female breast" You can suck on it when you are a baby, but god forbid you ever take a look at it again before you are married. What's wrong with these people? Even public nudity laws differ from city to city (e.g. in California), so clearly, people aren't al…

> You can suck on it when you are a baby, but god forbid you ever take a look at it again before you are married.

It turns out, a mother's nipple has a far different effect on an infant than a young adult female nipple does on a teenage boy. If this is difficult for you to grasp, then you should consider stepping away from this conversation, as there is clearly nuance here that the average person can easily understand but that you can't.

> What's wrong with these people?

What's wrong with you?

> Even public nudity laws differ from city to city (e.g. in California), so clearly, people aren't aligned at all on this subject (I'm emphasizing the arbitrary nature here).

I don't think "arbitrary" means what you think it means. Just because people don't all agree on the definition of something doesn't make one person's definition arbitrary.

> Forbid and censor the things you're afraid of educating on.

"Education" has nothing to do with it. Pornography has been proven to be devastatingly harmful for many, many people. There is no world in which you can be morally consistent, for instance, in supporting an age minimum for alcohol consumption but not for pornography consumption.

> On a closing note, I do recommend supporting organizations like https://www.aanr.com/ who also provide legal help to citizens in states that'd rather have you wear a burka than show a nipple.

If your moral code drives you to make the world a better place by liberating people from restrictions on viewing pornography, then I contend that your moral code is corrupt or severely misguided.

Re: PornHub blocks users in Utah, cites state’s age verification law

#680

Post by mattpallissard » Tue, May 02, 2023, 5:39 PM UTC

tenacious_tuna wrote: post #520

gambiting wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand - if I did this kind of thing as a kid I'd just lose progressively more and more privileges. My parents never put technical obstacles in my way - there were just clear consequences for braking the rules. If your son keeps braking the rules you've set....surely there comes a point where he loses his phone/PC or whatever? No?

tldr: if your kid keeps breaking the rules, ramping up enforcement is not going to change that for the same reasons that punitive punishment in the judicial system is not effective. Your kid has to understand why the rules are if they're ever going to function well within them, and that also requires a level of parental compassion and understanding that often isn't present. > If your son keeps braking the rules you'v…

> if your kid keeps breaking the rules, ramping up enforcement is not going to change that

I can't speak for all children, but I have five of them and this works pretty damned well in most circumstances.

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