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EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#671

Post by Beaver117 »

Zircom wrote: post #607
b112 wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The recent trucker protest in Canada, had just this happen. People locked out of their accounts. For protesting!

Blocking domestic and international commerce, and more importantly access for emergency services, goes a little beyond just "protesting" as most people see it, and it also probably isn't protected by whatever right to assemble/protest people have in Canada, if any(?).

>Of course you have the right to protest against the government >Nooooo not like that!!

Which is it?

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#672

Post by akimball »

epolanski wrote: post #638
flumpcakes wrote: post #488

There already exists laws where you have to register with tax authorities to receive payments in cash over 10,000 euros. It would be quite easy for the government to look at this list and decide that there's no reason they can't be done by BACS and then introduce this law. There's a lot of replies that are quite shocked, but in the EU and the UK it is very unusual to use cash for high value payments. For example, you…

I rarely use cash and oppose it. Why keep money on you? Cash promotes tax evasion and money laundering, plain and simple.

Both of which are, like helping fugitive slaves, virtuous acts.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#673

Post by Gatsky »

sealeck wrote: post #215
Gatsky wrote: post #176

Capital controls are one of the elements of financial repression. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financial_repression

You have to analyse at the population here; capital controls are useful for preventing people who have accumulated sizeable asset holdings in country X from moving them to a jurisdiction Y where there are effectively no taxes. Of course this reduces the freedom of the people who control these assets, but there is a common fallacy (usually introduced by the very same people) where they claim that liberty (in the abstr…

I would characterise it differently. The aspect of financial repression that hurts the middle classes the most is letting inflation run. This is because they tend to have cash assets and their way of life is in many ways predicated on the idea that working hard ensures a certain buying capacity. It is also hard for them to move to Panama, for many obvious reasons. It is more that in the current world, there are many options for moving money around, so it harder for a government to ensure they have a captive audience for financial repression in terms of cash reserves.

I am not critiquing financial repression. It is probably the only feasible way to reduce government debt compared to say austerity measures. We would all be better off if economic growth could overcome government debt, but the Eurozone lacks the demographics to make this happen. Italy in particular is a basket case in that regard. One point to make however, is that the severe degree of inflation in Europe seems at least partly due to asinine energy policy. If that had been better handled, then the pain wouldn't be so great. Europeans may therefore be less happy to accept inflation denuding their lifestyles as an 'inevitable' condition of living in social welfare states.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#675

Post by tadfisher »

Beaver117 wrote: post #671
Zircom wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blocking domestic and international commerce, and more importantly access for emergency services, goes a little beyond just "protesting" as most people see it, and it also probably isn't protected by whatever right to assemble/protest people have in Canada, if any(?).

>Of course you have the right to protest against the government >Nooooo not like that!! Which is it?

At least in the US, the right is of "peaceable assembly", not a blank check to break laws.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#676

Post by justahuman74 »

franey wrote: post #600
xyzzyz wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In his home country, you couldn't trust the banks, so people hid their money. Of course that kind of thinking is silly in Australia, but good luck explaining that to someone with war-trauma. Not too long ago we saw the Canadian government freeze bank accounts of people for protesting the Covid measures. Don’t think that it cannot happen in your country.

For people not familiar with Canadian politics, this summary missed some important nuance. Bank accounts were frozen for some people who donated money to support an illegal occupation of part of Canada's capital city, Ottawa. The occupation was a mix of people protesting COVID measures and others demanding that Justin Trudeau resign. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/emergency-bank-measures-fin...

> Bank accounts were frozen for some people who donated money

That seems like an incredibly disproportionate response, and makes me think that Canadian banks really are unsafe

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#677

Post by akimball »

wcoenen wrote: post #368
rmasters wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also why not just go 10 days in a row and pull out 1k? In the US, this could be considered "structuring" to avoid reporting requirements which is a federal crime with a sentence of up to 5 years in prison.

If the reason to pull out 1K/day is a 1K/day limit imposed by the bank, then the reason is obviously not to avoid reporting requirements and therefore it cannot be considered structuring.

And yet people are prosecuted.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#678

Post by akimball »

Quarrelsome wrote: post #442
catiopatio wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tax-man and the police state are the oppressors, not the taxed and the prosecuted.

taxation is not oppression, it is the means of seeking to fund the government. Taxation is applied in almost every EU nation on a sliding scale that almost entirely ensures that it is evenly applied to every single citizen. I would argue that formulating this scenario as "oppression" demonstrates that you do not accept the democratic mandate of government and view government as an enemy which you should hide your ear…

No, taxes do not fund governments in the modern era.

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#679

Post by justahuman74 »

csomar wrote: post #588
b112 wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This likely affects a number of people that is so small, that it's irrelevant No. Just no. Rights are not a for-profit balance sheet, such as when Google support provides crappy service, or ghosts you, in the name of profit. Rights are rights. Entrenched, untouchable, everlasting. And each loss affects us all, for the next right taken, is from you. Telling people they must use private enterprise, a third party and pa…

> Because limits like these are never raised. Inflation will take care of that. Also, you can't convert that money to Gold or Crypto and a house is too damn expensive to buy. So someone with 20k Euros will end up with 2k euros in value.

That part of the problem, it wont be long before 10000 in EU currency wont buy much at all, effectively making cash unusable

Re: EU-wide maximum limit of €10K for cash payments

#680

Post by justahuman74 »

Teandw wrote: post #257
olivermarks wrote: post #253

'By limiting large cash payments, the EU will make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money. ' Bizarre how the EU is penalizing everyone in order to 'make it harder for criminals to launder dirty money'. People pay taxes in order to have their bureaucrats serve them by creating a safe financial and social environment, not to have them assume everyone is a criminal/terrorist and greatly impede access to their as…

In what circumstances have you or someone you known ever needed to pay for something over €10k in cash?

Private party vehicle sales, I've done this a few times.
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