The new and upgraded Framework Laptop • Hacker News Board

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#671

Post by ohthehugemanate » Fri, May 20, 2022, 10:01 AM UTC

lukeschlather wrote: post #456

fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is interesting: over the last several months, a friend has been running NixOS on a Framework and has been told by Framework employees that they can’t help him with Linux kernel issues because he’s using an unsupported OS and he’s also had lots of complaints about battery life and power management. I love the idea of the Framework, but it seems to suffer from all the issues that made me switch to MacBooks in the…

doyougnu was previously running NixOS on a Macbook so their bar for "working" is probably much lower than a normal person's. I'm on Windows, but if a Linux could give me reliable power management I would switch in a heartbeat. I don't know what it would take to have sensible power management on Linux without major issues.

What counts as sensible for you?

Experience differs depending on hardware. My Dell XPS 13 got 7hrs out of the box on Manjaro, which I tweaked to get to 8.5-9. On ubuntu I didn't have to bother with the tweaks. That's comparable to Windows on this device...

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#672

Post by oblio » Fri, May 20, 2022, 10:12 AM UTC

bpye wrote: post #580

oblio wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just make the US keyboard version available everywhere and worry about local keyboards later, when people ask for them. Your audience is probably 90% devs and sysadmins, who most definitely can at least handle en_us.

Shipping a US keyboard in Europe seems like an odd choice since most European keyboard layouts are ISO, not ANSI. I could see a blank keyboard working, or an ISO US keyboard maybe, but that is an uncommon layout that I don't think I've ever actually seen before?

In many, many European countries, especially the smaller ones, a large chunk of devs and sysadmins straight out use the US keyboard layout, basically the old IBM PC one. I have no idea what kind of standard they follow... And people don't seem to care.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#673

Post by Smithalicious » Fri, May 20, 2022, 10:17 AM UTC

Any plans to sell a full laptop kit minus mainboard? I have a Framework with the 11th Gen CPU (that I love very much) and I like that there is an upgrade path to the 12th gen CPU, but afaict that would leave me with an 11th gen mainboard that I can't turn into a second laptop easily and would be hard to sell for the same reason.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#674

Post by hollerith » Fri, May 20, 2022, 10:21 AM UTC

Smithalicious wrote: post #673

Any plans to sell a full laptop kit minus mainboard? I have a Framework with the 11th Gen CPU (that I love very much) and I like that there is an upgrade path to the 12th gen CPU, but afaict that would leave me with an 11th gen mainboard that I can't turn into a second laptop easily and would be hard to sell for the same reason.

People put the mainboard in a 3-d-printed case (the plans for which are given away by Frame.work) to make a tiny desktop computer (like a NUC), so a mainboard would sell.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#675

Post by Abishek_Muthian » Fri, May 20, 2022, 10:23 AM UTC

Looks like Framework is ready to take over the role of the compute unit from Raspberry Pi/Jetson for cyber decks[1] thanks to the separate availability of the mainboard and its modularity.

It's also priced reasonably and so I might be able to get it to India without selling my kidney which is not possible with fully-built laptops due to import restrictions i.e. If Framework ever decide to ship to the country.

[1] https://community.frame.work/t/introducing-the-new-and-upgra...

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#676

Post by mhitza » Fri, May 20, 2022, 10:25 AM UTC

avar wrote: post #366

mhitza wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "Amazon is not available in all EU countries". Do you mean like a country specific TLD? Because that is true, but order and delivery is not a problem from any EU country as far as I know.

In my experience a significant part of Amazon's inventory isn't something they'll send outside of the "domain country", e.g. trying to send from .de or .uk (this was before Brexit) to .nl. It just comes down to suppliers, who aren't serving customers outside of select markets for whatever reason.

I see that as a "market platform" problem. I used extensively amazon.de/co.uk with deliveries in Romania, in early 2010's for a bunch of things. But since then they also opened up their market to any seller, quality dropped, shipment became preferential, or 1 cart could result in 2 separate shipments.

Aside. I've seen the exact same problems with our local Amazon "competitor". As soon as they became a platform marketplace I've started using them less and less because of the same quality/delivery issues.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#677

Post by mhitza » Fri, May 20, 2022, 10:30 AM UTC

oblio wrote: post #494

mhitza wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "Amazon is not available in all EU countries". Do you mean like a country specific TLD? Because that is true, but order and delivery is not a problem from any EU country as far as I know.

If it's not localized, it might as well not exist for 95% of customers in a country.

I expect that 20-40 years old, are able to use an English language website. Thus your made up 95% is extremely high.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#678

Post by Abishek_Muthian » Fri, May 20, 2022, 10:30 AM UTC

ahartmetz wrote: post #670

Abishek_Muthian wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Even the discrete-ish Iris Xe graphics are surprisingly fast. So cool that we'll actually be able to update the innards in a few years as necessary to keep it feeling fresh. Isn't Intel graphics always been the best bet for Linux due to their excellent driver support? I'm excited for their discrete GPUs just for the sake of proper Linux support. I have an 15W haswell machine in the corner decoding & encoding multipl…

Intel GPUs have been the best bet for Linux laptops for a long time (over 10 years), but for the last two or three, AMD has been just as good. Just avoid dual GPU laptops ("Optimus" or whatever), it's very problematic on Linux and somewhat problematic even on Windows.

I do have a laptop with one of those early intel/AMD 6000 series dual GPU laptops, I remember setting up GPU drivers for it (AMD GPU) used to be troublesome but nowadays even Ubuntu sets it up by default and the devices could be switched with just DRI_PRIME.

But of course the performance is awful and intel GPU is better for most tasks; Newer AMD GPU and open-source drivers are likely much better as you say.

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#679

Post by NikolaNovak » Fri, May 20, 2022, 10:32 AM UTC

bitwize wrote: post #515

NikolaNovak wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>they felt so clumsy to me that I don't see how I could ever be a convert. They do have a learning curve; but FWIW, I feel exact the opposite - I can achieve both lightning fast movement, AND pixel-perfect precision with the trackpoint (the latter I have never managed to consistently achieve on a trackpad). (Note, for me, it's never a "Trackpoint vs Mouse". I'll use mouse 100% of the time when at my desk. When not a…

> (the latter I have never managed to consistently achieve on a trackpad). Ever try an Apple trackpad?

I have a 4 year old Macbook. Does that count?

And I'm ready to admit I am not an expert on it; my point is exactly that I am an expert on track point and it's awesome :-)

Re: The new and upgraded Framework Laptop

#680

Post by _ink_ » Fri, May 20, 2022, 11:05 AM UTC

boppo1 wrote: post #156

nrp wrote: post #2

I'm happy to answer any questions around this! We've been working on this since update since we launched the product last year, so we're excited to be able to share it today.

Any chance you'll eventually have a Framework with a 'clickier' keyboard and a trackpoint like the x220? I will happily buy your product the next time my x220 dies (instead of upgrading it) if it has the nice clicky keyboard and a trackpoint. A slightly thicker laptop is very much a fair trade-off.

The missing trackpoint is a major reason for me to stay with Lenovo.