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Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

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Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#671

Post by mmmpop »

csande17 wrote: post #223
mmmpop wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That makes you management buddy, so saddle up and don't forget your helmet.

If you can become an enemy of the union simply by being good at your individual-contributor job, maybe that's why unions haven't really taken off in software engineering.

I'd venture a guess that the variance in quality between a set of "professional" electricians and another set of "professional" developers is different by an order of magnitude.

Said another way, I can go down to the union hall and pick an electrician randomly and have a great deal more confidence in that person's ability than I could choosing a random developer off of LinkedIn to write my application.

I think certifications have something to do with this, but it's also the complete lack of understanding of what makes someone a good developer by management... this is entirely the fault of management and I don't blame a developer for trying to "fake it til you make it."

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#672

Post by mmmpop »

Clubber wrote: post #327
heartbreak wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not-so-subtle threats of violence. Another reason not to like labor unions.

People should really stop with the hyperbole. It makes people not take you seriously and ruins the message, even if valid.

As a person not necessarily opposed to labor unions, I'm curious as to how the previous post was hyperbolic? Violence and organized labor go together like milk and cereal, so let's not act like union folks are all saints.

Somewhat relevant: https://www.9news.com/article/news/investigations/denver-fir...

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#673

Post by ljw1001 »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #301

Some people are extremely sensitive to the issue of the remote work, like it is some kind of inalienable right, and any (perceived) threat to it makes them want to grab a pitchfork and proteat. I don't get it. Things are simple. The employer sets the terms, where you work and how the work is paid. The employee either accepts the terms or walks away. Sometimes the sides engage in negotiations, where the side with more…

This prioritization of the rights of corporations over every aspect of human life is one of the great diseases of the modern world

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#674

Post by DoingIsLearning »

jstx1 wrote: post #521
birthday wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think his point is that the solution to the problem is not to go back to the office, but to try develop a better social life outside of work. It's the "root cause" fix.

That argument only works if you make the value judgment that socializing outside the office is better or of higher quality somehow.

Come on of course it is.

Offices have hierarchy, promotions, payscales, politics. Socializing in the office is a PC minefield.

My current direct manager is about my age, with kids about my kids age, he is an overall great guy. If we weren't working together I am sure we would have beers together, but in the current context I would hate to blur the work/leisure line.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#675

Post by dpark »

_ph_ wrote: post #621
sylens wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the office you walk to the coffee room in that time and there you meet people in the same phase. They are taking a break and you don't interrupt each others work when having a chat. Except those whose assigned desks happen to be close to the coffee room/kitchen. That's the problem with the way offices have been designed - there is always going to be some subset that has less than ideal conditions. The worst open…

Where I work, the coffee room is pretty isolated. My office is actually the closest one, but I can close the door. When I am talking about the advantages of offices, I am thinking of good offices. No doubt that bad offices are almost always worse than working from home. Unfortunately, many companies have no idea (at least their upper management), about what makes a "good office". Otherwise the nonsense of "open space…

> Unfortunately, many companies have no idea (at least their upper management), about what makes a "good office".

Lol. Of course they know what makes a good office. The execs all have nice offices.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#676

Post by holoduke »

malwarebytess wrote: post #483

Warning: Hot Take. I genuinely believe many people who prefer working in an office versus at home have unfulfilling social lives or bad home lives. The social dynamics, competition, in physical offices fills the void in their lives. Also seems like most of the people clamoring for a return to the office are also climbers & middle managers. For some work a physical presence is required not just preferable, but for mos…

I am a very social person. I want to be around people. My home is good. But too noisy, too many kids :) I love meeting people in my work field and I love to have a real conversation in which I can read body and speech. Not just speech. For me the whole working from home thing sucks. I don't like it.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#677

Post by baq »

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #168
baq wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

some people have a life outside of the office and found that the commute takes a very large toll on that. they didn't know previously, but now have two years of experience that they'll never forget.

Prior to the pandemic, people I worked with in NYC wore their commute times as badges of honor. “You commute 90 minutes each way? That’s nothing. I commute 2 1/4 hours each way” Think of that. Some people were spending 4.5 hours commuting every day. And it was ok with them.

my commute is 15 minutes on a bad day and I really don't miss it. I legitimately, figurativaly and literally, can't comprehend what you're describing.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#678

Post by thirdsun »

code_runner wrote: post #603
Closi wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Warning: Hot Take. I genuinely believe many people who prefer working in an office versus at home have unfulfilling social lives or bad home lives. The social dynamics, competition, in physical offices fills the void in their lives. Warning: Hot Take. I have similar logic, but reach an almost opposite conclusion. I genuinely believe many people who prefer working at home rather than an office have unfulfilling work…

I agree with both of these hot takes… I love a hybrid approach because I really enjoy the random conversations that crop up in the office… but my social life is so much improved outside of work in the last year or so that everything about physically being present feels tedious. I have a coworker I call to talk shop for a few minutes and then bullshit for another 15-20 minutes almost daily when I’m wfh. I’m very stron…

The problem with the hybrid approach is that I’d still have to live in the area. However I want to be geographically independent from my employer and prefer a quiet, low cost of living area as my home.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#679

Post by native_samples »

MrPatan wrote: post #663
native_samples wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by the tech industry you're including startups, then those all firms with money due to future expectations of success, not actual success. Then you've got firms like Apple, Google and Microsoft with so much financial momentum they could lose half their employees tomorrow and their quarterly results would go massively up. The cases where WFH matters are all the firms in the middle. Non tech firms, for example. Firm…

What do you think your friends were doing in the office instead of BBQ or napping? Extra work, or a coffee with Bob from accounting?

There are a limited number of times you can have coffee in an afternoon. The counterfactual here isn't machine-like productivity but rather, not sleeping when you're being paid to do work.

Re: Apple's director of machine learning resigns due to return to office work

#680

Post by noisy_boy »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #586
noisy_boy wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because actions have consequences and action at a scale sets norms. Considering he has the choice to walk away and is exercising it, it is sending the signal to the market that forcing people to return to office will have consequences. If he doesn't and everyone doesn't, it just kills the work-from-home momentum at large. In fact I am grateful to him for doing so because I am not in a position to do so myself but wou…

You will also likely reap not only the benefits of such actions, but also the consequences, because fully remote companies have little reason to choose employees living in a high cost places like Silicon Valley over remote developers from far cheaper places who will agree to work for 1/4 of the compensation paid to office workers.

Sure - depends on whether your assumption of my location being Silicon Valley is correct or not.
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