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No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

robkhenderson.substack.com

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Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#671

Post by Rapzid »

huffmsa wrote: post #187
ekianjo wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when you have kids for no reason, they know they’re here for no reason, and it’s a formula for a disaffected person. That does not make any sense. Most older generations did not choose to have children (certainly not as much as we do) and it did not result in generations being "disaffected". If anything that's exactly the opposite - we are the generation when we have full control of who gets born and there's never…

> Most older generations did not choose to have children Birth control and family planning aren't a new invention.

Sex is still the primary reason for having a child today just as it was 50 years ago lol.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#672

Post by dash2 »

3np wrote: post #535
jcstk wrote: post #132

I can appreciate this perspective because I used to have it. I even wrote a similar blog post 10 years ago - it was on the top of HN and the comment section was a beautiful shitshow. For me, this perspective was a good story to tell myself - it justified why I was only investing my time in “work”, and validated me for having “come so far”. Over time, I have reflected and shifted this perspective. That reflection cent…

One thing that really stuck out to me was the implicit assumption that "stable home environment" requires or is equal to "married couple of biological parents living together until child becomes adult". Especially the quote where an agreement that stability is important was interpreted as agreement that marriage is important.

The evidence is that married couples are more stable than unmarried couples.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#673

Post by zmgsabst »

libraryatnight wrote: post #667

Holy crap I never imagined so much weird Ward Cleaver ideology from HN. This thread is insane to read. I expected this article to be universally eviscerated, since it's tons of conjecture and bad data badly interpreted, but there's a ton of people who apparently feel like their male identity is attached to some bizarre archetype. Some sort of fucked up Form for men floating out in the ether that looks like a cross be…

Yet, you’ve taken this as a chance to demean an entire thread rather than engage in good faith and explore that difference of opinion.

Do you think that kind of reflexive insulting dismissal is…

…a healthy response?

…a positive contribution?

…a symptom of what they’re trying to explain?

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#675

Post by cnelsenmilt »

imajoredinecon wrote: post #204
bastawhiz wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that poll support your argument? Spending and funding isn't directly correlated with "spending time". Chicago spends almost two billion dollars each year on police. Yet it's often cited as one of the most dangerous cities. I'm sure plenty of folks in Chicago's South side would love more patrols. Is the right way to go about that really to keep throwing money at a system which appears to be squandering the funds?…

The idea of "funding" is just a rough proxy for what people really want (or don't): more police presence. Garden-variety "defund the police" advocates think that, due to police violence, bias, and so on, the police should be a smaller part of how we address crime. The people in areas affected heavily by crime think that the police should be _more_ involved. That's the disagreement.

But do they think the police should be more involved in exactly the same way they are now? I don't know, but I do assume that if asked they would suggest some changes in behavior: "police should be more involved but also they should stop with the X and do more of Y". Either way, that angle is certainly missing from the single question cited above.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#676

Post by [deleted] »

rayiner wrote: post #3

This is an important read, especially this part. > This highly educated and affluent person prioritized stability for her own children. But refused to publicly endorse this value so that less fortunate children could also benefit from family stability. I’m from a rigidly socially conservative immigrant family that professes fashionably liberal values in public—imposing a double standard between “us” and “Americans.”…

[deleted]

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#677

Post by clearleaf »

dumpsterlid wrote: post #503
VLM wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its innumeracy propaganda. There are no minimum wage jobs where I live anymore, and I live in a lower cost of living area (not Manhattan or silicon valley, LOL). I'm not surprised no one can afford rent at $7/hr when no one can find a job paying $7/hr. Costco has a sign up paying $19/hr to empty trash cans and they can't hire people at that low of pay and the article claims its a tragedy that a middle tier single bed…

> Costco has a sign up paying $19/hr to empty trash cans I am getting really tired of people casually talking about jobs like this as if they are easy. Do they require a ton of professional knowledge or skills? Nope. Are they way harder than your job? In all likelihood. I mean, all the proof you need is literally in the fact that Costco can't find workers willing to do the job for that wage. The conditions suck for h…

I seriously doubt they "can't find workers." I have a friend who works at a rural Tim Hortons and he described to me the massive stack of applications he spotted as "thicker than the phone book. Like two new packs of printer paper." Despite multiple interviews per week nobody gets hired. They've been on a skeleton crew since last summer. I think it's a total crock that they can't find anyone. More like they can't find anyone good enough, and good enough means willing/able to do 4x more work than anybody with the same job had to do previously. I want to start my own million dollar paranormal challenge, but it's for anyone who can prove a non striking non startup company has suffered due to not being able to find workers. I don't think it's happened a single time since 9/11.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#678

Post by layer8 »

DeathArrow wrote: post #329
giantg2 wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The article is right on the mark talking about the importance of social expectations for men." Those only really work if the opportunities are there for the person to succeed. If you have no hope of success, then people just give up.

>If you have no hope of success, then people just give up. Success doesn't come from hope. It comes from hard work and fighting every day for something better. Luck might help, but is neither required nor enough for success. I was from a poor background and fighting for a better future was the only thing that brought me some kind of success.

I bet you had hope that your fighting would be worth it. What the GP is saying that if you don’t have hope then you have no incentive to work hard, because the lack of hope literally means that you don’t believe there’s a realistic chance it will lead to success. You need that belief to get going and to keep going.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#679

Post by giantg2 »

VLM wrote: post #490
giantg2 wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you have expectations, many opportunities may be gone. Just look at the lack of non-college work in the US that pays a living wage. Now try to get one of those jobs if you're competing against others who have no criminal history if you have a minor one. I have a job as a dev and even I'm tired of this treadmill. Taxes, COL, healthcare, etc. No time/money to do the things I want. No real career, just a job. Li…

> Just look at the lack of non-college work in the US that pays a living wage. A problem that doesn't exist. Plenty of that work out there. Try to get a custom 3-phase power line run in the datacenter. Average age of electricians is about 55 around here. Nobody goes into the trades because the trades will "destroy your body before you're 35" yet all the thin healthy tradesmen around here are mid-50s boomers. Hmm. The…

Or maybe that the majority that possess those traits go into other higher paying jobs that also require those traits. Starting around here for electricians is closer to $25-35. If you are concentrating and studying the NEC, you could alternatively study to be a dev and make more.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they are responding by doing nothing

#680

Post by Der_Einzige »

hotpotamus wrote: post #341
throwaway6734 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They largely do? Divorce rates are much higher among people with lower educational attainment

Recently I've noticed that divorce rates amongst the richest are actually quite high too. Gates, Bezos, and Musk are all divorcees and Buffet has had an open marriage situation for something like decades I believe. Just something I found interesting.

They call it "new wife money" for a reason when you get rich...
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