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Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

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Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#671
post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

But that would only apply to a small company where everyone is working on the same site.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#673
post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

> Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, some people hate onboarding on a new company as a remote person and so on and so on.

My team has been able to hire people from all across the country, gaining access to talent that we normally would not have been able to reach.

Because my entire company has gone fully remote, if someone on the team has to take a trip overseas, they can choose to continue working if so desired. If someone wants to bail to a seaside town during the worst of winter, no problem.

People aren't forced to live in overpriced urban areas, they can live where they choose to!

> I think that an environment where someone can tap me on the shoulder when they need help leads to overall higher productivity, even if individual productivity suffers temporarily.

I agree, but I am getting 1/8th of my waking hours back from commuting.

Since the pandemic began I have been putting under 3000 miles a year on my car. I am eating home cooked meals every day. Mid day I can walk down to the local grocery store and pick up food to cook later for dinner.

My QoL is insanely improved.

If I need maintenance work done (Late last year I bought a house that was built in the 1950s, so, yes, lots of that happening) I am here all day long if need be. I don't have to worry about when expensive packages are delivered, I am always here to pick them up. I can have someone come by and cut my cat's claws whenever need be. I can schedule doctors and dentists appointments at any time of the day and not have to take a day off of work to make them.

And so on and so forth. WfH rocks.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#674
post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

> I personally prefer a company where everyone's on site

Pretty obvious from the rest of your comment.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#675

That's good to be back in the office. For me it's only a week to start feeling bad. Loneliness, the same walls I live with family, no colleagues around to talk to. That's not for me. Sometimes I prefer to work from home, because I need to run some errands, from home I have better control. Everybody should have an option, or possibility to work from home some days in a week. But nothing replace morning coffee in the k…

> But nothing replace morning coffee in the kitchen with colleagues! Isn’t this what “friends” are for?

Morning coffee at work is where you actually solve problems without managers butting in. You don't typically talk to friends about work as well.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#676
post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

I’ve onboarded around a couple of companies remotely and it can be done really well, if people put thought and a process into remote onboarding it works really well.

Some things:

- make sure your laptop setup is documented (install x, y, z: setup like this) - document where all resources are, confluence, repos, dashboards, everything and how to access - setup virtual meetings with peers, in team and across company - one place suggested you reach out to 5 random people for a 10 minute chat - you could reach out to the lowest or highest person and the people being reached out to expected that random people would do it and it was fine - this really helped - setup virtual calls with managers, their managers, their managers - just ten minutes to introduce yourself to each other

I’ve had better remote onboarding that starting onsite and twiddling my thumbs for over a week not knowing anyone or doing anything - I’ve suggested I leave places if there isn’t anything for me to do or any way for me to work before.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#677
post #616

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Agreed. We've proven that big tech companies can continue to be productive for up to two years going remote. I suspect that that doesn't generalize very well to being completely remote over the long term. It works well when you already have a bunch of personal relationships between teammates that were es…

The typical tenure for many developers is 2-3 years. 2 years is a long time for a software company.

That really depends on the software company. There are plenty of places where two years as about two releases of the product.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#679
People argue about whether remote work is 'productive' but is 'productive' all we really care about? I understand this is Hacker News so productive is the guiding principle but what about community, friendship? Doesn't working remotely just force us more into our little bubbles? Especially for engineers I think it just reinforces natural tendencies and won't lead to the same sort of growth over time? There is an aspect of getting better socially as you age (hopefully) for example.

Re: Google mandates workers back to Silicon Valley, other offices from April 4

#680
post #84

I think anyone who's claiming that remote work has been "proven" to be better or worse is wrong. There are some studies but they use estimations and proxies, carrying the same flaws as doing performance reviews based on lines of code. We've proven that the big tech companies can go fully remote and not completely crash and burn, that's about it. Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, s…

> Some people love the lack of commute and less semi-forced hanging out, some people hate onboarding on a new company as a remote person and so on and so on. My team has been able to hire people from all across the country, gaining access to talent that we normally would not have been able to reach. Because my entire company has gone fully remote, if someone on the team has to take a trip overseas, they can choose to…

I was going to reply to the parent comment but found yours and just wanted to say 100x this! Thank you for capturing it so simply and concisely.
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