Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is literally, by every definition, an occupation. People came in and brought homes with them (sleeper cabs, RVs, etc). Now they have set up permanent structures such as kitchens and other facilities (today they brought in a sauna), and have been stating repeatedly that they are in for the long haul. There is a reason that's called an occupation. A protest is normally a discomfort for the protester. Enduring the el…
Maybe, but if the popular discourse doesn’t use the word “occupation” for the likes of CHAZ, then I think it’s fair to avoid it here as well. We should strive toward fairness and away from partisan favoritism IMHO.
Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations
671–680 of 731 posts
Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations
#672Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wonder how partisan this anti-mandate resistance is. My gut tells me it enjoys a lot of support from conservatives but also a healthy amount of support from a lot of moderates and a huge swath of the working class regardless of party affiliation.
Anti mandate movements in general have something closer to what you said, but everyone I know that isn't right wing is embarrassed or angry at the convoy, even those who don't like mandates.
Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations
#673Earlier quoted context omitted.
You may have trapped yourself in a different web of hypocritical rhetoric: Would you also be against civil rights sit-ins and GoFundMe being used to support those?
It's hypocritical because of something you imagined? Why would a sit-in, or any similar event, EVER need sponsorship? When has it ever needed sponsorship?
This ultimately degenerates around the extremes, and I believe that is what the poster is concerned about; that your definition basically bakes in the assumption that any protest must necessarily be so minor in nature as to not overly disrupt, when in reality, the point of a truly effective protest is to disrupt.
Assume that somehow a fit of madness took hold of the Highest authorities in the land and sufficient agency to implement and enforce dicta in a resistable, but still a threatening degree to the nation as a whole. Assume quite literally the entire country except the perpetrators disagreed.
Now apply your rule. We've got a situation where literally everyone but the people wrecking things is ready to organize resistance. Your rule places the Authorities on a privileged position of presumptive legitimacy where none exists. Only token protests capable of being safely ignored due to transient nature and poor coordination will be tolerated. Anything (even peaceful in the extreme, literally being somewhere, taking up space, breathing air, and just existing), but requiring extensive/non-trivial logistics becomes an act against which force of law is "justifiable" to disperse.
Personally? I don't accept your view. If there are enough people that feel like their capital is best allocated making themselves a pain-in-the-ass to , that's their perogative.
...Now, given, the cross-border jurisdictional complications in this case, I will give you this seems different because people in another nation are funding disruptive activity in yours. If it were only coming from domestic funders, that'd be one thing. The external funding elevates this to something else. However, this is a complication that has been long in coming to the forefront, and poses diplomatic questions currently above my paygrade.
However, I'm still more sympathetic to the protestors here in the same manner that I disagree with the Taft-Hartley Acts ban on organized secondary striking. Ultimately, I believe the People (for any unit Nation's definition thereof which is a completely different thing to kavetch about) are the ultimate authorities on what is legitimate, and what isn't. If they decide to fund something that the government, or even the rest of the populace doesn't like, ultimately, the vote of no confidence inherent in the action elevates their behavior to civil disobedience.
Which I am totally okay with.
Note: the implicit okay evaporates once people start getting violent, actually committing crimes (where said crimes are not transparently "stop being inconvenient" crimes, a la assault/battery/arson/murder/larceny/grand theft/kidnapping/property destruction).
Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations
#674Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's obviously a peaceful protest*. The word "occupation" here is already spin from the side that wants to shut it down and is trying to build a case for doing so. Peaceful protest involves physically assembling and making noise. That is no doubt unpleasant both for those who disagree with the protestors and those who live in the neighborhood, but the right to do this in public is fundamental and vital in democratic…
It is literally, by every definition, an occupation. People came in and brought homes with them (sleeper cabs, RVs, etc). Now they have set up permanent structures such as kitchens and other facilities (today they brought in a sauna), and have been stating repeatedly that they are in for the long haul. There is a reason that's called an occupation. A protest is normally a discomfort for the protester. Enduring the el…
Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations
#675Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, I'm calling visa to try and do a chargeback. I expected the money to go to the cause, and not be refunded less a 'tip'.
A good cause would be a public health initiative.
Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations
#676Earlier quoted context omitted.
So wait... Just to be clear: Are you asserting that the fact people are building/taking into account logistics to protest for the long haul with regards to something they vehemently disagree with detracts from the legitimacy of the act of protesting? If so, wow. That's low-key\backhand authoritarian to a T; defining legitimate protest as something that isn't in the grand scheme of things effective at disrupting somet…
"So wait... Just to be clear" The intro to an always disingenuous comment. "If so, wow." Yet more. Protests throughout time have been at hardship and discomfort of the participants. When your "protest" are sleeper cabs (in vehicles regulated through monopoly by the government, which seems like an easy lever) and hotel rooms, now with saunas and food prep rooms, funded by the American right, and your "protest" is layi…
Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations
#677Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm concerned about 1st amendment and the soft power politicians have on freedom of speech (yes I know this is in Canada). When the head politician of a country essentially calls your group terrorist, wouldn't that put some pressure on social media or other organizations to restrict access, money or censor speech? Not all violations of free speech are literally police sending someone to jail for saying something. If…
Yeah, we do not have what you think of in terms of freedom of speech in Canada. A private corporation using their insured property to audibly harass a city and blockade streets is not considered freedom of speech in Canada. Take away their toys and let them hold a protest with their boots and parkas.
Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations
#678Earlier quoted context omitted.
Quoted post unavailable.
> Cool, imagine if I passed a law saying donate 20% of your life savings to Trump or go to jail. Don’t worry, you aren’t forced to, by that logic. But the threat of jail is actually being forced. No on is going to jail for being unvaccinated. Are you equating finding another job to being incarcerated? > Or in a more realistic world from the past, you’d better not employ that German Jew or your business will get forci…
Good, then you aconowledge that discrimination on this characteristic was an act of force requiring explicit protections to be implemented to cease the practice?
The poster is making the assertion that the same underlying pattern of behavior is unfolding, and your interpretation of it not being an act of force requires that your definition of "force" be so out of touch with the reality/form of life that they are invoking under the pre-supposition you both can come to an agreement on a dictionary referenced definition of the word, as to be uselessly undermined by arbitrary political distortions so as to be useless to continue trying to communicate.
This is not a good sign; for anyone involved; I might add.
Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations
#679Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is being forced. If you can experience significant losses or risks unless you comply, that’s being forced. You’re being disingenuous. It’s easy to see where this breaks down - per your logic a mobster running a protection racket isn’t forcing anyone to pay extortion money either.
Accepting your premise that it's being forced on us, how is this different from the many other laws we are "forced" to obey as a part of Canadian society?
Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations
#680Earlier quoted context omitted.
By definition, this is forced. Force means to make someone do something against their will. In this case the choice is be fired or take the vaccine. They obviously don't want to be fired, so they are being forced to take the vaccine. Yes, it isn't physical force, but it is forced none the less.
> By definition, this is forced. Force means to make someone do something against their will. Yes, but they aren't required to get the vaccine against their will. They have the choice to quit. That's what makes it a choice. If they had no choice to quit, then you would be correct. > In this case the choice is be fired or take the vaccine. Exactly. > They obviously don't want to be fired, so they are being forced to t…
Heads: I win, Tails: you lose is not good faith in the slightest, or even a reasonable facsimile of a choice.