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The case against masks at school

theatlantic.com

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Re: The case against masks at school

#671

Post by jimmyjazz14 »

sleepybrett wrote: post #573
jimmyjazz14 wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ah, so you didn't read the article I guess, because it never says that they don't work 100% just says the evidence that they do isn't great, it also covers what the writer sees at downsides (cost) to masking children. Its fine to have differing views but you should probably focus your arguments on the substance of article. The author laid out several very compelling paragraphs to back up her point along with sources…

1% effective is better than 0% effective. The best defense is defense in depth.

I mean that is generally referred to as "safetyism" and while I guess its a fine personal choice it is not something that should be applied in public policy.

Re: The case against masks at school

#672

Post by a_shovel »

Closi wrote: post #564
a_shovel wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This plan would kill a large portion of immunocompromised people worldwide.

Why are the only deaths we seem to care about those that are Covid related? If we are worried about killing people worldwide, far more people die of hunger-related causes each day, but we aren't rebuilding our entire society to save those people. But I can't see a reason why deaths from Covid are more of a tragedy than those we left to starve. Or take smoking for instance - more people die each year from smoking than…

I do believe we should rebuild global society to prevent death from hunger. I don't know how to do that, but it's a thing we need to prioritize more.

When I see people minimizing COVID, I wonder if they've somehow avoided seeing an excess death graph even once for the past year-and-a-half.

Re: The case against masks at school

#673

Post by eddieplan9 »

aqme28 wrote: post #534
tqi wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. If your Grandpa chose to not get vaccinated and gets COVID, thats his problem. 2. The idea that anyone who wants in person learning is a "screaming Karen" is fucking stupid. There is lots of evidence that remote learning has all kinds of negative outcomes for kids, and your (frankly sexist) dismissiveness is the reason this conversation never goes anywhere.

> If your Grandpa chose to not get vaccinated and gets COVID, thats his problem. Unfortunately though that's not true. It's putting a huge burden on hospitals that affects us all.

Maybe insurance companies should drop them (or raise their premium, just like what they do with smokers).

Re: The case against masks at school

#674

Post by veemjeem »

spookthesunset wrote: post #661
ajford wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My large city in Texas is now down to 35 ICU beds across the entire city. That's how. A friend's father-in-law had to drive 4hrs away to find a hospital with capacity for his cardiac surgery. That's how.

And why is that the fault of the general public? These hospitals had 2 years to figure this out.

Why would it be the fault of hospitals? They have no incentive to construct more ICUs. A large percentage of covid patients entering the ICU for ventilation will die, and you can't collect on a dead patient. ICUs are a money hole -- they require specialized equipment, isolation construction, experienced medical team, etc. If a hospital is motivated by profit, they would construct as few ICUs as legally possible.

Re: The case against masks at school

#675

Post by wallacoloo »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #644
wallacoloo wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It just represents a general fatigue that a lot of people have with the anti vaxxers. That we have hard numbers that vaccines actually work seems to be irrelevant to them, so why maybe they would be convinced by snark and sarcasm instead? and you think this is an experience unique to your viewpoint? do you think the people reading your words who have vaguely opposing views might not also be fatigued when your group…

> do you think the people reading your words who have vaguely opposing views might not also be fatigued when your group flatly denies their concerns as irrelevant? In the sense that a conspiracy theorist or a crank gets tired of people not believing them, yes, I guess they are annoyed. I just little empathy for them: I want this pandemic to be over, and they are getting in the way of that. Barring that, I hope that t…

> I have little empathy for them, however: I want this pandemic to be over, and they are getting in the way of that.

funny, because most everyone i know wants this too, and it’s always “the other side” which prevents the pandemic from “being over”. from a person standing in the middle, it appears that it’s the divide which blocks this, whereas from deep behind lines i guess it looks like everyone past that divide is blocking things.

well good luck winning a battle in the modern world through force of will. there’s a reason the world powers generally don’t conduct large wars openly these days, and that many conflicts are instead resolved via international agreements (especially of trade). if you do discover a way to resolve the social woes in life without leveraging pro-social behaviors (like cooperation/empathy), write me and share your findings so that i in turn can better the state of our society. and if you spot the inherent contradiction of the previous sentence, i’ll buy you a beer.

Re: The case against masks at school

#676

Post by uoaei »

pcmoney wrote: post #543
uoaei wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it is not and no we are not. You are advocating the sacrifice of lives which are not your own, which is unequivocally reprehensible.

It is endemic. Its everywhere. Its mutating. Humanity has never stopped the spread of similar coronaviruses and even if we could the death rate/risk is not bad enough to justify the cost (this isnt smallpox/polio) We have vaccines. They don’t stop you from getting it or transmitting it. They do lower probability of the vaccinated person getting severe/fatal covid. Clearly a personal health decision that should not be…

Not endemic. Will you accept a formal assessment of endemicity from a PI at the Vaccine and Infectious Disease Organization? See as of two weeks ago: https://twitter.com/angie_rasmussen/status/14808999541638635...

Not interested in playing word games. Words mean things. Get over it.

> [Vaccines] don’t stop you from getting [COVID] or transmitting it.

This is a harmful framing. What ultimately matters is Rt and adequate ventilation help us reduce the amount of exposure when contact is unavoidable? Yes. Ergo each of these factors contributes to reducing the reproduction rate of the virus when applied. Wow, the power of simple logical deductions. Try it sometime.

Deliberately obfuscating truths by painting a false dichotomy is misinformation.

Life doesn't go on for the multitudes of preventable deaths that have occurred and will occur because people like you continue to push false narratives.

Re: The case against masks at school

#677

Post by nostrebored »

lovich wrote: post #646
mbeattie wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure and while we’re at it, let’s not treat aids patients because they engaged in high risk activity and not treat heart attacks of the overweight either.

Are the hospitals collapsing because of aids patients or so many people getting heart attacks? If so then maybe we should start using carrots/sticks to limit peoples risky behavior or make them absorb more of the cost. If they’re not collapsing the hospitals then why bring them up?

I mean… yes, they are. Hospitals have frequently been at capacity before covid, often from the number one killer, heart disease

Re: The case against masks at school

#678

Post by pcmoney »

sjg007 wrote: post #647
pcmoney wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An endemic disease is a disease that is always present in a particular population/region. Ex. Flu, malaria, HIV, syphilis, and… COVID Am I missing something?

Go look up the definitions of these words and then read what Closi wrote again.

Ill do that if you look up pedantic

Re: The case against masks at school

#679

Post by pcmoney »

a_shovel wrote: post #672
Closi wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are the only deaths we seem to care about those that are Covid related? If we are worried about killing people worldwide, far more people die of hunger-related causes each day, but we aren't rebuilding our entire society to save those people. But I can't see a reason why deaths from Covid are more of a tragedy than those we left to starve. Or take smoking for instance - more people die each year from smoking than…

I do believe we should rebuild global society to prevent death from hunger. I don't know how to do that, but it's a thing we need to prioritize more. When I see people minimizing COVID, I wonder if they've somehow avoided seeing an excess death graph even once for the past year-and-a-half.

Not minimizing just doubtful continued lockdowns and restrictions will do much to the death graph at this point.

We have vaccines, we have better therapies. Lets move on.

Communism killed 20M people and we still flirt with that ideology.

Re: The case against masks at school

#680

Post by uoaei »

jimmyjazz14 wrote: post #582
uoaei wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it is not and no we are not. You are advocating the sacrifice of lives which are not your own, which is unequivocally reprehensible.

I mean most experts agree that it is (or will be), soooo yeah you should probably accept that and figure out how to live your life accordingly, maybe just don't go into public policy making though.

Curious which experts are "most" and which are not.
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