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Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

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Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#671

Post by gruez »

bjarneh wrote: post #400
freddie_mercury wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway includes housing. Says so right on the page from Statistics Norway that says how CPI is calculated.

I stand corrected; I just assumed they were, since others do and inflation has been reported as very low for the past 20 years. It's hard to imagine that housing could be part of this calculation the way the housing market in Norway has developed in the past 25 years. I guess it's the way the house/energy is lumped into a category which is weighted low, at least in comparison to how much of our expenses it represents…

>I guess the people in the US ignore it completely, we just weigh it wrong :-)

uhh what? It's the same situation in the US. "houses" aren't a component of inflation, but "housing" is. According to the BLS, the "Shelter" component makes up 33.3% of the CPI.

https://www.bls.gov/cpi/tables/relative-importance/2020.htm

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#672

Post by whimsicalism »

ericmay wrote: post #660
pydry wrote: post #621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the tail wagging the dog, though. The large contingent of Americans who throw their political weight in an organized way behind gun ownership as a point of principle were rallied by the gun manufacturing industry. It wasn't organic. It didn't happen in Australia or New Zealand or the UK even though gun enthusiasts exist in all of those countries.

> It's not the tail wagging the dog, though. The large contingent of Americans who throw their political weight in an organized way behind gun ownership as a point of principle were rallied by the gun manufacturing industry. It wasn't organic. Idk exactly what you mean by organic, but if it means what I think you're trying to say, idk what's more organic than creating the Second Amendment which was created long befor…

> idk what's more organic than creating the Second Amendment which was created long before there were gun lobbyists.

I think the whole debate over gun control is not as important as people make it out to be, so I don't have a huge dog in this fight.

That said, 2A was not interpreted (at least by the courts, but also it seems from historical research, in public discourse) the way it has been until the late 90s and early 21st century, particularly in DC v. Heller.

Historically, there was generally broad latitude given to cities to have arms restrictions going back to the 19th century. My guess is that the crack epidemic and associated things in the late 80s and 90s is what shifted attitudes here.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#673

Post by what_is_orcas »

thatjoeoverthr wrote: post #101
wing-_-nuts wrote: post #20

We had an all-hands meeting recently where we got to submit anonymous questions. One of the questions was 'with inflation rising at 6%, will the company reconsider their 'standard' 2% raise?' The lady answering looks dead in the camera and goes 'Honestly? No' and goes on to talk about how we're reasonably competitive with the local market. Hey, credit where credit is due, at least she was a refreshingly straight shoo…

I just went through this. They gave a one percent raise, last year, because COVID. (The company was fine.) Inflation around five. I talked to recruiters and got a new job, with nearly forty percent increase. Prior employer offered me a large increase to stay. I did not. A raise below inflation is a pay cut. That’s enough.

> A raise below inflation is a pay cut.

A couple years ago my previous company cut the standard yearly raise from 3% to 2%. When inflation went crazy during the pandemic I started casually dropping the quoted line into every conversation with coworkers I could. I even threw out some feelers around organizing but I was always laughed off by someone or other.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#674

Post by csomar »

pydry wrote: post #511
AlexandrB wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get why minimum wage isn't tied to the CPI by default. I supposed there's a risk of it creating a positive feedback loop, but only a small portion of the workforce is paid at minimum wage. It seems capricious for minimum wage to only be increased when the legislative branch decides it's popular enough to fight for.

Because both parties are owned by oligarchs who would lose money if that happened. Minimum wage hikes chew through profits and profits are pretty much the #1 legislative priority because that's the primary concern of those doing the campaign financing. Same reason gun control wont happen no matter how many people get killed - ultimately its because gun manufacturers would lose money. American politics is the art of t…

> Same reason gun control wont happen no matter how many people get killed - ultimately its because gun manufacturers would lose money.

This is ... derailing. If Americans didn't love guns, they wouldn't go and buy guns. There is close to 400 million unregistered firearm in the USA. I don't think it's only Republican's. The companies who make guns will try to protect their business but at this point they are just secondary.

Also both Canada and Finland are in the top 10: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_g...

A person with a gun is not necessarily dangerous. An idiot with a gun is. An idiot without is still as dangerous.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#675

Post by MichaelRazum »

Gareth321 wrote: post #250

Real wages have been flat since the 1970s ( https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us... ). "Okay, so people's living standards are about the same since 1970?" Not even close. The problem with inflation is that its calculation is fraught with all kinds of selective weighting, bias, and politics. Take a look at the relative differences between the things which have decreased and increased in cost in…

I agree on the inflation measurement.

Regarding your question there is a simple explenation. YES we are much much productive then before. BUT wages are decided by markets. No one is paying you your "fair" share if it is possible to hire someone cheaper. Its like a commodity in the end. Good devs or spezialized doctors get a very very good sallary, so it just depends on your "market value".

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#676

Post by Auracle »

vishnugupta wrote: post #350
namdnay wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The far-right parties in Europe are usually focused on immigration rather than race. Look at the Brexit parties in the UK, the big enemies were the Poles. And the FN/RN in France has always taken pains to show that it is "pro-black" (and anti-brown..)

> immigration rather than race. Two sides of the same coin. A large section of people are left out of benefits of improving economy. Lions share of the gains go to the Uber rich people. And politicians play immigration card to whip up their voter base. More or less exact phenomenon played out in Bombay, India. Except that the immigrants were Indians from other states (Gujarat, Tamilnadu etc). But when the political p…

Perhaps they just see that wages are being suppressed through mass immigration of a cheaper labor force?

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#677

Post by rsj_hn »

MichaelRazum wrote: post #675
Gareth321 wrote: post #250

Real wages have been flat since the 1970s ( https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us... ). "Okay, so people's living standards are about the same since 1970?" Not even close. The problem with inflation is that its calculation is fraught with all kinds of selective weighting, bias, and politics. Take a look at the relative differences between the things which have decreased and increased in cost in…

I agree on the inflation measurement. Regarding your question there is a simple explenation. YES we are much much productive then before. BUT wages are decided by markets. No one is paying you your "fair" share if it is possible to hire someone cheaper. Its like a commodity in the end. Good devs or spezialized doctors get a very very good sallary, so it just depends on your "market value".

FYI,

(non-farm) Labor productivity declined by 5.2% year over year:

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/prod2.t02.htm

If you break these numbers down, you see that total production increased by 1.2%, but it required 7.4% more labor to produce that extra 1.2%. Compensation went up around 3% but of course in real terms it declined -- it pretty much has to decline if you need more labor to produce the same amount of stuff.

Whether or not this is a trend or some weird pandemic related thing will be seen over time.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#678

Post by herbstein »

diordiderot wrote: post #425
hectord wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't generalize. Far-right parties are not mainstream everywhere. Europe is complex, as much as the US. The issue with this way of thinking is that you look away from countries which might have good policies. These policies could be used in the US.

> not mainstream everywhere FR: Front national IT: lega Nord DL: AFD ES: Vox They're taking over Europe because neoliberals are full of shit, and the left wing has their hands tied. Normal people have nowhere else to go.

DK: Dansk Folkeparti

Well, they lost of a lot of their voters... because most of the middle-seeking parties adopted their hostile foreign policy and made them irrelevant.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#679

Post by marcosdumay »

guerrilla wrote: post #419
Jenk wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean.. as long as it's a fair election and not a campaign of lies, maybe the problem isn't the political parties and actually, people just really want the right to reign?

> people just really want the right to reign Many people do. I see this as a dangerous problem. Weimar Germany also really wanted the right to reign and it didn't turn out well. The party here was founded in part by two literal Nazis and a bunch of skinheads. I don't really care what people want when they want them to rule.

I see that as a reaction to the previous raise of the intolerant left. If that is so, it's self correcting and the entire extreme right will go back into being treated like the clowns they are as soon as they get any power.
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