Welcoming our first riders in San Francisco

Post by s17n » Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 3:24 PM UTC

ketzo wrote: post #410

beaconstudios wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many situations where "come to a stop safely" is the worst possible thing you could do. Yes, people are bad at driving, because they don't pay attention, panic, make mistakes etc. But ML models tend to freak out at slight variations on mundane circumstances; a cyclist crossing the road at just the right angle and the wrong colour of bike, that sort of thing. The thing self driving cars need to avoid is kill…

> The thing self driving cars need to avoid is killing people in broad daylight for no discernable reason This, I think, is the thing that people miss when they say "self-driving cars don't need to be perfect, they just need to be better than human-drivers, who aren't actually all that great". From a public confidence perspective, it doesn't matter if a self-driving car crashes one tenth, one one-hundredth as often a…

Post by ghaff » Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 3:53 PM UTC

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #671

ghaff wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Level 4 (e.g. highways in good weather) is something that people buying cars will pay a significant amount for as an option in good weather. It does nothing for those who want robotaxis. But the former don't care about the latter. You have multiple groups of drivers including those who appreciate self-driving assistance on long boring highway stretches and may not even drive in cities that much and those who never wa…

Level 4 doesn't necessarily mean just highways - it could also easily include suburbs with well-designed roads that have been mapped in excruciating detail. You could force the car to avoid certain intersections with lots of close calls, or give the car advance info about unexpected objects detected in the road by cars up ahead, etc. which would make the task a little easier.

Post by throwaway2037 » Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 4:40 PM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #627

throwaway2037 wrote: post #605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused why many people automatically assume robot taxis will be cheaper. Financial Times (Alphaville Blog): The questionable economics of autonomous taxi fleets: https://www.ft.com/content/aa05823d-e58f-33ee-a99c-d50f2fd0c... ... quotes this Harvard/MIT study: Autonomous Taxis and Public Health: High Cost or High Opportunity Cost?: https://psyarxiv.com/6e94h >> I can imagine that as the world grows more urbanis…

Notably, your 2nd paper puts the cost of a traditional taxi at $3.50 per mile. At the low end of the autonomous price range, it is still a half price taxi. For the autonomous taxi calculation they also include a 250k medallion plus interest paid off over 5 years, but don't include this for regular taxis. They also include a 200K/year to supervise the auto taxi for the high end ($6/mile). With all that said, Auto taxi…

Post by VelkaMorava » Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 4:53 PM UTC

njarboe wrote: post #598

michaelt wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People at Tesla and other autonomous driving companies, of course are aware and worry about such situations. Yeah, a Tesla couldn't possibly drive into a stationary, clearly visible fire engine or concrete barrier, on a dry day, in direct sunlight.

If you never fail, you aren't moving fast enough. A million people are killed globally each year by motor vehicles. Staggering amounts of pain and injuries. Massive amounts of property damage. Tesla's cars are not supposed to be left to drive themselves. The chance to save so much carnage seems worth letting some people driving Tesla's, that fail to pay attention to the road, suffer the consequences of poor decisions…

Post by mavhc » Wed, Aug 25, 2021, 5:54 PM UTC

bildung wrote: post #646

mavhc wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yeah, it's like other autopilots: An autopilot is a system used to control the path of an aircraft, marine craft or spacecraft without requiring constant manual control by a human operator. Autopilots do not replace human operators. Instead, the autopilot assists the operator's control of the vehicle, allowing the operator to focus on broader aspects of operations (for example, monitoring the trajectory, weather…

That's just devious marketing on Tesla's part. They can always excuse customer misunderstandings with the original meaning you explained, while normal people can be savely expected to interpret autopilot as full self driving (and I'd be surprised if they didn't have actually tested this with focus groups beforehand). So not really lying (great for the lawsuits), but constructing misunderstanding on purpose (great for…