Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

asia.nikkei.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

671–680 of 725 posts

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#671

Post by romwell »

mbesto wrote: post #613
romwell wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me pose a different question. What value does the following claim bring into the discussion: "The is going to be just as bad as , just give it time"? It's just needless negativity. There are so many interesting things about TikTok that one can discuss, and choosing to just be a Debbie Downer about it ("You like it, but it's bad for you!") feel like an extremely boring way to think about anything.

> There are so many interesting things about TikTok that one can discuss, and choosing to just be a Debbie Downer about it ("You like it, but it's bad for you!") feel like an extremely boring way to think about anything. Oddly enough, I find comments like "I don't care to talk about any negativity because this product/service is the best thing since slice bread" boring as well. What's your point? You seem to be getti…

I'm trying to make a simple statement: the claim that TikTok is the same as other platforms is idiotic (if it were so, it wouldn't reach the #1 spot in spite of not being around a few years ago).

Logic dictates that TikTok must be doing something differently, and doing it right.

I am trying to explain what that something is.

I am upset because as long as people here don't get what makes TikTok unique and successful, there will be no US-made alternative to TikTok. Which sucks, because it is a Chinese spying/influence machine too.

Exhibit 1: Instagram, which is now imitating TikTok, poorly, with it's video feed. Literally all content I see there is TikTok reposts.

Exhibit 2: YouTube's... whatever. Dead in the water.

Facebook and Google don't get it. HackerNews doesn't get it. And as long as that goes on, y'all are just handing our youth off to the PRC's influence.

Did I make my point clear?

I hope I made my comment negative enough for your preference, but I'll be glad to elaborate.

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#672

Post by rualca »

romwell wrote: post #546
MrDresden wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we perhaps agree that there is a possibility for things to go bad in the future (in regards to data collection and privacy), but that today we have no concrete evidence of it?

We can, but what value is there in making that statement? Things always can go bad, and, often, do go bad. That's almost vacuously true. What would one expect to come out of saying that, other than the feeling of smug satisfaction at some point in the future?

> Things always can go bad, and, often, do go bad. That's almost vacuously true.

> What would one expect to come out of saying that, other than the feeling of smug satisfaction at some point in the future?

Why, take action to ensure things won't go bad?

Is that concept hard to understand? That preparation is the key?

I mean, why do people waste their time going out of their way to go to a crosswalk and wait for the light to go green to cross a street? They can simply jaywalk their way through life without bothering with hypothetical traffic accidents. But what value is there in doing that? People can get run over and often do get run over. That's almost vacuously true. What would one expect to come out of saying that people should cross the street in crosswalks other than the feeling of smug satisfaction at some point in the future when a jaywalking fool gets ran over but they don't as a result of thinking things through and avoiding obvious problems?

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#673

Post by romwell »

bodge5000 wrote: post #656
romwell wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, I was talking about deplatforming because that's what the comment I responded to brought up. Privacy-wise... OK, I'm an ex-FAANG, and that ship has sailed long ago. My cynical view is that TikTok is far down the line of entities that collect all the same data. As for the car analogy, yes, this was exactly what I was trying to say; apologies for lack of clarity. I was arguing with others who were saying "TikTo…

Deplatforming isn't really my wheelhouse so I'll stay out of that one, there are plenty of intelligent people on both sides of the coin who do understand the issue to the point where there isn't much value in my chipping in. As for data privacy, you make a fair point. As I said in an earlier comment, despite my misgivings about their "take everything that isnt bolted down" approach, I continued to use Facebook even a…

I agree that we agree :)

And I am a very active Facebook user, too (the use case of keeping in touch with many friends scattered across the nation/world is covered pretty darn well there).

The value I derive from these platforms is orthogonal; there's a place for both.

I am not a fan of Google because they keep changing things and killing off the projects that I like. Believe it or not, I was completely sold on the Circles premise of Google+, and nothing has come close to that ever since. The most important downside of G+, of course, isn't privacy — it's that it no longer exists.

So I'm just waiting for someone to finally figure search out. That's the only thing keeping me there (I use an IMAP mail client, so can switch easily; Maps aren't a unique proposition; Docs aren't something I use).

I tend to write a lot in enthusiastic agreement, so I'll just say yes, if people were more willing to think about why people like Trump in 2016, we probably would not have had Trump (..nor Clinton running against him, for that matter).

The feeling of belonging, acceptance, and power drove disenfranchised poor male white rural Americans to Trump like a magnet, and the Dem party decided that they don't need to care about that because Trump is so obviously bad. It's very frustrating to think about like 100 different ways that scenario could have played out differently.

I feel like that's what I see now with this TikTok discussion. I literally had to defend against accusations of being a parasocial relationship addict for stating my point. Because, apparently, one must be a lifeless addict to be enthusiastic about that platform sigh.

My doomsday prediction is that TikTok will continue to dominate social media, with PRC being intelligent enough to wield influence softly enough for it not to be noticeable (unlike FB literally enabling genocide). Where that will land us in 10 years is an interesting question to consider.

Who knows, maybe we'll get our government to spend less on rockets, and give us healthcare and education instead. Isn't that a win for Chinese geopolitics? I would hope it is! :) Somehow.

(Off-topic, but in the same way, the Bolshevik revolution of 1917 happened with quite a lot of help from the Germans, who figured it's going to kick Russians out of the war - which it did. Whether it was good for the Russians is to debate to this day.)

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#674

Post by romwell »

random314 wrote: post #669
romwell wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You might not care about the future. But others on this forum do. See, at no point did I ever make claim about what other people here are , or claim to know how they feel or think . But the implication just made regarding me and caring about the future is the kind of unprovoked hostility that I feel safe from on TikTok, but not here. Whether I care about future, or cats, or fancy tea is not up for discussion .

Maybe perhaps, it might have occurred to you that your response to mbesto is perhaps the best example of "unprovoked hostility" in this thread. Your shrieking, outright nasty responses and sense of entitlement don't automatically make you a victim. Stop trying to police other people's thoughts, responses, beliefs and predictions about Tiktok. And yes, pretty please, can you please get off my lawn? I didn't come here…

>Maybe perhaps, it might have occurred to you that your response to mbesto is perhaps the best example of "unprovoked hostility" in this thread

>And yes, pretty please, can you please get off my lawn? I didn't come here to witness mental derangement

I can't love this enough. Thank you.

>Stop trying to police other people's thoughts, responses, beliefs and predictions about Tiktok.

I didn't know it could get better, but it did!

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#675

Post by romwell »

MrDresden wrote: post #570
romwell wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can, but what value is there in making that statement? Things always can go bad, and, often, do go bad. That's almost vacuously true. What would one expect to come out of saying that, other than the feeling of smug satisfaction at some point in the future?

Under that same logic nothing that could potentially ever go badly should ever be discussed as it can always happen and thus there is no value in discussing it? Not all of us think along the same lines. Some might like to believe that things are perfectly fine and there is no harm in participating. Some might realize the potential for harm, but simply not care about the outcome. Others have a different opinion, one o…

A discussion about how TikTok can go bad, and what we can do about it would be valuable. And for that discussion, we'd need to understand what makes TikTok so good that it's taken the #1 spot.

Saying "TikTok bad, don't use it" is the opposite of having a discussion.

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#676

Post by romwell »

bodge5000 wrote: post #656
romwell wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, I was talking about deplatforming because that's what the comment I responded to brought up. Privacy-wise... OK, I'm an ex-FAANG, and that ship has sailed long ago. My cynical view is that TikTok is far down the line of entities that collect all the same data. As for the car analogy, yes, this was exactly what I was trying to say; apologies for lack of clarity. I was arguing with others who were saying "TikTo…

Deplatforming isn't really my wheelhouse so I'll stay out of that one, there are plenty of intelligent people on both sides of the coin who do understand the issue to the point where there isn't much value in my chipping in. As for data privacy, you make a fair point. As I said in an earlier comment, despite my misgivings about their "take everything that isnt bolted down" approach, I continued to use Facebook even a…

Also, please accept my sincere thank-you for providing your input to this discussion, as well as putting in effort to understand what I was trying to say, and have me say more about what I didn't convey clearly.

It's this kind of discussion that keeps bringing me back to HN!

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#677

Post by romwell »

Cederfjard wrote: post #645
romwell wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of your argument seems to be based on the assumption that I've been on the platform for a long time. I joined last month. Specifically, over a year after the article cited by the parent comment was written. That's my point here: I don't know if their algorithms were bad in the past, they are not bad now in the way the parent comment claimed then to be. As for the rest of your comment, you seem to miss that we'r…

Let’s say that this purported effect of hiding the ”divergent” to ostensibly avoid bullying does not exist at any substantial rate, at least not for you. I’m still curious what you think about the claims in the articles further up the thread, regarding steps they took to try to make that happen (even if maybe they were unsuccessful). Personally, it doesn’t leave me with a great taste in my mouth.

Let's be clear: it sucks, and at least it used to happen.

But it sucks precisely because there's no other platform that gives the neurodivergent crowd a voice the way TikTok does.

This is why I'm talking about it! If the engineers in the West don't understand the value of TikTok, we'll never get a homegrown alternative.

Think about TikTok as an apartment complex with an awful landlord that sometimes kicks disabled people out...

...while still remaining the only accessible housing for disabled people in town.

Everyone here is saying that obviously it's going to turn into a slum, look how it mistreats disabled people!

And I say, please come and see for yourself how this place is different from others if you want us to move, because this goddamn slum at least has wheelchair ramps, and wherever y'all are living does not.

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#678

Post by random314 »

romwell wrote: post #674
random314 wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe perhaps, it might have occurred to you that your response to mbesto is perhaps the best example of "unprovoked hostility" in this thread. Your shrieking, outright nasty responses and sense of entitlement don't automatically make you a victim. Stop trying to police other people's thoughts, responses, beliefs and predictions about Tiktok. And yes, pretty please, can you please get off my lawn? I didn't come here…

>Maybe perhaps, it might have occurred to you that your response to mbesto is perhaps the best example of "unprovoked hostility" in this thread >And yes, pretty please, can you please get off my lawn? I didn't come here to witness mental derangement I can't love this enough. Thank you. >Stop trying to police other people's thoughts, responses, beliefs and predictions about Tiktok. I didn't know it could get better, b…

Your response did not have enough italics, I couldn't interpret it.

Re: TikTok overtakes Facebook as most downloaded app

#679

Post by birdyrooster »

rchaud wrote: post #627
birdyrooster wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about how last summer Harvard discovered that Covid started in Wuhan back in August 2019 using satellite imagery and then overnight the focus became how to combat anti-Chinese sentiment (hate crimes had risen against Asian-Americans to levels seen earlier in the 2010s, still an order of magnitude less prevalent than hate crimes against American Blacks). TikTok was the principle platform leading that charge. Pre…

From where I'm sitting, the overnight focus was on establishing public health protocols to prevent the healthcare system from a black-swan type of event-driven collapse. And passing legislation to provide financial relief. And coordinating global travel restrictions. And coordinating vaccine development efforts.

Those four things are absolutely what the discourse morphed into, but it goes to show the success of the campaign. Because Trump called it the "kung flu" and is almost always racist with his rhetoric, liberals piled onto anyone that tried to dig into the origin of covid as being racially motivated. TikTok made that culture war really simple for liberals to fight. Trump is a nasty guy full of bad ideas, but the culture war and Trump Derangement Syndrome are real things that shut down legitimate inquiry.
Post reply on HN