Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Brave Search beta

search.brave.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

671–680 of 697 posts

Re: Brave Search beta

#671

Post by lern_too_spel »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #665
lern_too_spel wrote: post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would rankings not be copyrightable?

Why would they be? Again, if all things being copyrightable by default, Google could not even exist, they assume they have the right to consume any data they want. If a monkey can't copyright a selfie because they're not a person, an algorithmically generated spew of stuff Google ripped from elsewhere certainly lacks merit for copyright.

All things are copyrighted by default. Once again, those websites grant a license to search engines to consume their content via robots.txt, and Google does not.

Re: Brave Search beta

#672

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #505
zzyzxd wrote: post #46

Previous related discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26328758 If things go as planned, this may become a paid, ad-free, zero-tracking search engine. I can't express how exciting this is to me. Over the past few years, I have made several attempts to replace Google Search with DuckDuckGo. But they have all failed and I always ended up changing the default search engine back to Google. I mean, DDG worked f…

"If things go as planned, this may become a paid, ad-free, zero-tracking search engine." In 1998 when Google's founders announced their search engine they claimed it would be less commercial, more academic, more transparent and they would avoid the influence of advertising. Did things "go as planned." Not even close. What is the lesson here. Meanwhile, every search submitted during the "beta" period is subject to non…

This Brave search beta is quite slow and there is no way to access "page 2". One page of results. Hard to believe this is "good enough" in 2021.

Re: Brave Search beta

#673

Post by pythux »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #672
1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If things go as planned, this may become a paid, ad-free, zero-tracking search engine." In 1998 when Google's founders announced their search engine they claimed it would be less commercial, more academic, more transparent and they would avoid the influence of advertising. Did things "go as planned." Not even close. What is the lesson here. Meanwhile, every search submitted during the "beta" period is subject to non…

This Brave search beta is quite slow and there is no way to access "page 2". One page of results. Hard to believe this is "good enough" in 2021.

Hey, Brave Search is currently hosted in the US (I am assuming you are on another country) and latencies will be bigger in other places. We will scale in the future, which should improve speed.

Regarding number of pages of results, please see my answer on another thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27597911

TL;DR: we currently show the equivalent of 2 pages of results and will consider more in the future.

Re: Brave Search beta

#675

Post by catmanjan »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #663
jonathansampson wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're absolutely right that some people are not interested in ads, at all. And this is why they install content-blockers and more. This doesn't change the fact that many others install things like uBlock Origin for their security and privacy benefits. This is precisely why Brave ships with Brave Ads and Rewards disabled by default. We believe that the out of box experience should be blocking . This works for both pa…

I notice you didn't address one important part of my comment, that Brave is attempting to monetize other peoples intellectual property by stripping it of ads. There is a big moral difference between a community of people blocking ads for their own protection, and a company blocking ads for profit. -- When somebody reads a web page, but blocked the ads, I like to think the reader is saying, I'm interested in what you…

Would you then say it's disengenous to listen to the tv or radio while browsing the internet with an ad blocker?

Re: Brave Search beta

#676

Post by jonathansampson »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #663
jonathansampson wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're absolutely right that some people are not interested in ads, at all. And this is why they install content-blockers and more. This doesn't change the fact that many others install things like uBlock Origin for their security and privacy benefits. This is precisely why Brave ships with Brave Ads and Rewards disabled by default. We believe that the out of box experience should be blocking . This works for both pa…

I notice you didn't address one important part of my comment, that Brave is attempting to monetize other peoples intellectual property by stripping it of ads. There is a big moral difference between a community of people blocking ads for their own protection, and a company blocking ads for profit. -- When somebody reads a web page, but blocked the ads, I like to think the reader is saying, I'm interested in what you…

> Brave is attempting to monetize other peoples intellectual property by stripping it of ads.

Brave doesn't make money by blocking third-party ads; that's a privacy and security decision. Brave could default to no-blocking (which would be unwise, given the threat to users), and still have its own ad model of displaying ad notifications.

> …people blocking ads for their own protection…

This is why people install Brave; for the privacy and security benefits. This is the baseline experience in Brave.

> When somebody uses the Brave browser and has opted in to other ads…

Why do you assume people aren't using Brave for their own protection? For many people, including myself, advertising isn't the motivator of installing an ad/content blocker. The primary reason is the security/privacy risk of running a small app (which is what modern third-party digital ads are) on my machine.

So if the problem is security and privacy, and not advertising, it makes sense why somebody would opt to participate in an alternative advertising model which does not have the same security/privacy risks, and even rewards the user (with 70% of the ad revenue) for their attention.

> I'm going to check out these other ads, make some money for myself and for Brave…

And for the publisher, since the default configuration of Brave is to queue up auto-contributions for the verified sites you visit.

Re: Brave Search beta

#677

Post by bagacrap »

jonathansampson wrote: post #440
gundmc wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a dishonest way of bypassing payment for Google search API by impersonating a request from a user.

It's still a request from the user; the user consents to issuing these requests on behalf of Brave Search when they opt-in to Fallback Mixing. Anybody can issue calls to Google's search engine.

What do you think the Google custom search api is supposed to be used for if not serving searches that originated with some user?

Re: Brave Search beta

#678

Post by bagacrap »

jonathansampson wrote: post #445
howolduis wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

then what about this?: > On 6 June 2020, a Twitter user pointed out that Brave inserts affiliate referral codes when users type a URL of Binance into the address bar, which earns Brave money. Further research revealed that Brave redirects the URLs of other cryptocurrency exchange websites, too. In response to the backlash from the users, Brave's CEO apologized and called it a "mistake" and said "we're correcting". Se…

That was addressed in my comment (the one you're responding to) with this link: https://brave.com/referral-codes-in-suggested-sites/ . Briefly, we added a way for users to support Brave without having to make financial contributions. They could simply opt to use one of our affiliate codes for a few poplar sites/services. We added a feature to Brave which responded to user search input, and offered affiliate links for…

So "can't be evil" then "whoops, that bit of evil was an honest mistake".

Re: Brave Search beta

#679

Post by karinakarina »

kaba0 wrote: post #533
octatrack wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I switched to using StartPage after DDG failed me. I ended up adding !g to almost all of the searches. StartPage shows Google results through a proxy for improved privacy. I am quite happy with it.

Just a note that StartPage was bought by a not-too-privacy friendly company.

Startpage person here. In 2019, Startpage announced an investment by System1 through Privacy One Group, a wholly-owned subsidiary of System1. It's 2021 and our privacy policy hasn't changed.

What has happened with this investment, we've hired additional engineers and added new features.

And, System1 doesn't receive any user personal data because we don't collect it and never will. Why did System1 invest? "System1 is interested in Startpage's ad revenue, not its data" Source: https://www.computing.co.uk/news/4017337/privacy-focused-sea...

Re: Brave Search beta

#680

Post by karinakarina »

beebeepka wrote: post #539
kaba0 wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a note that StartPage was bought by a not-too-privacy friendly company.

Startpage was turned into shit over the last few months. Requiring JS for search and absolutely freakish amount of ads dominating the first scroll of results. Been with them for about a decade but this is too much

Hi - I'm a person from Startpage. I'll share your feedback with the team, but here I can respond to some of these things.

JS: Startpage does use Javascript, but only to enhance user interaction with our site and improve the search results we provide.

ADs: Startpage displays at most 3 ads. Like other private search engines, Startpage's revenue model is based on contextual ads.

Let me know if you have questions or suggestions.

Post reply on HN