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America has a drinking problem

theatlantic.com

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Re: America has a drinking problem

#671

Post by saiya-jin »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #661
capableweb wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither of the things you've listed sounds like diversity, it sounds like inequality. Why is half the country without proper education while the other ones are in the best research institutions in the world? And what does the people are those institutions spend their time on, if it's not helping the other half reaching the same position as themselves? The social experiment seems to be about how extreme you can really…

Inequality does create diversity as it gives people a vastly different life experiences.

Just wow... I guess you would have different sentiment if you would be on the poor side of the inequality scale. Sentiment about poverty being good because it gives 'vastly different life experiences'?

One of the things we can be actually proud here in Europe (mainly western part though), a rather strong middle class and tons of help to the poor (maybe too much according to some).

I know its nice to find cheap poor folks desperate to work for peanuts, and you can pat yourself in the back how the environment gives everybody a chance to thrive, but that's not an American reality, just a self-perpetuating pipe dream.

US is great for the ultra-rich, good for the rich, not-so-good for middle class and outright shit for the poor. But good luck trying to get this accepted in the US where folks are spoon-fed from the childhood how US is best in everything, rather than some healthy amount of critical thinking.

Generally everybody, but in my humble experience Americans (and French) especially, profit greatly when (have been) living abroad for some time. Then we can have actual conversations what is great here and there and what outright sucks.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#672

Post by mellosouls »

croutonwagon wrote: post #408
mellosouls wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do it and they answer the question in another way to mine given that it is a toxin and millions are using it to damage their health every day? How many of those millions using could genuinely give up today forever easily if they wanted to?

Im not sure I follow. Or how you would quantify that. Im sure most could probably quit cold turkey without physical withdrawal if that is what you mean. It takes a lot more than 4-10 drinks/day to be at risk of DT or even tremors. There are plenty of toxins that we freely ingest daily..Heck water in sufficient amounts is a toxin. Pretty much anything your liver has to process is a toxin in some form (i know thats sim…

I'd agree with most of those (with the caveat they don't have the same direct link with misery, mental illness, violence, crime and general anti-social behaviour) but don't see how us accepting them is justification for accepting alcohol beyond a defeatist "it all sucks so why bother".

Neither was I talking about physical dependency particularly; I see enough people failing miserably on simple stuff like dry January ("ha ha I only lasted 3 days" and the like) to be extremely sceptical that it is as easy as you imply to walk away from, especially in a society which surrounds us with it and sells it as "social" and normal.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#673

Post by Slippery_John »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #224
namdnay wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think having children limits serious partying, but what do you drink when you’re eating your evening meals? Only water? Maybe it’s a southern European thing, but I can’t imagine eating a heavy meal without the acidity of a red wine, for example.

I can’t imagine drinking anything but water 99% of the time. Or milk if you’re a kid.

This. My parents never let me have soda or juice when I was just thirsty. That probably had more to do with saving money than health, but the constant repetition of "if you're thirsty, drink water" has been etched into my soul.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#674

Post by wearywanderer »

mschuster91 wrote: post #626
my_usernam3 wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not legal, but very socially acceptable

... if you are young and white. For people of color, the "selective enforcement" effect kicks in which makes these laws so immensely prone to abuse.

I don't know why you threw in 'young', that clearly isn't part of the equation. My retired mother and her retired friends all love to drink on the beach. It seems to be very popular with the elderly.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#675

Post by Broken_Hippo »

notsureaboutpg wrote: post #348
misiti3780 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, these articles are ridiculous. If you have alcoholism in your family -- dont drink. If you're overweight because drinking causes you to eat shitty food and not exercise -- stop drinking. If you have anxiety because of drinking -- stop drinking. If drinking makes you an asshole and is causing relationship problems (I know a lot of people in this category) -- stop drinking. If you like to go out on the weeks a…

>If you like to go out on the weeks and drink 8 beers with your friends, all the more power to you. People have been drinking since time immemorial, it's part of who we are as human. This just isn't true at all and it's probably offensive to large groups of people who view alcohol drinking (with pretty good reason) as a vice. Abstaining from alcohol is also a praised act since time immemorial. Trying to keep one's mi…

Abstaining from alcohol is also a praised act since time immemorial. Trying to keep one's mind and body free from intoxicants is also a noble goal and is something that is part of us as human, AND it is what distinguishes us from animals (animals in general don't abstain from things out of sheer willpower, but human beings in general do, be it dieting, teetotaling, etc.).

This just isn't the truth. "Free from intoxicants" might be noble for some, but on the other hand, different sorts of intoxicants have been used for religion for a very, very long time. Folks have used this stuff for a very long time - not just alcohol. Folks to this day espouse the benefits of things like LSD and MDMA: pot/hash can be used to good effect.

Not to mention that folks bond over such experiences. Drinking 8 drinks in a night isn't necessarily dangerous, depending on the strength of the alcohol - no one said it was rapid either, nor unsafe. Just like you an do LSD or mushrooms and not be unsafe.

And there is just no way to know if animals abstain from things out of sheer willpower: We simply cannot communicate with animals on a level to give us that understanding. Animals DO seem to partake of mind-altering substances, though. (catnip, anyone?).

We tell folks to drive every day, and driving is a risky and dangerous behavior which easily endangers the public, by teh way.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#676

Post by graphtrader »

capableweb wrote: post #656
Wxc2jjJmST9XWWL wrote: post #636

Whenever I explain the "USA" to (Eastern) Europeans, I always simply state the notion: "diverse country of the extremes". Yes, widespread obesity, but health obsessions also run deep in that country, gym memberships, elite universities with sports programs full of money. How many weird diet fads start basically in the US? Self-help books, alternative gurus, etc. Bad education? Yes, pretty much. But also some of the b…

Neither of the things you've listed sounds like diversity, it sounds like inequality. Why is half the country without proper education while the other ones are in the best research institutions in the world? And what does the people are those institutions spend their time on, if it's not helping the other half reaching the same position as themselves? The social experiment seems to be about how extreme you can really…

I think you are just repeating things you have read about.

People walking out of their jobs because wages are so low is obvious bullshit.

The people I know in this situation are the hardest working people I have ever met and it is insulting to them to say such things.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#677

Post by Chris2048 »

dash2 wrote: post #663

I haven't seen in the comments just what a horrible, cruel disease alcoholism is. An ex-girlfriend's father was an alcoholic. He went out one day on a binge and came back with Korsakoff syndrome. Korsakoff syndrome causes apathy: it removes your emotions. He no longer spoke, except in monosyllables if spoken to. He wouldn't or couldn't feed himself. He sat all day at the kitchen table. His family took care of him. Th…

Korsakoff syndrome is treatable, isn't it?

Re: America has a drinking problem

#678

Post by karlkloss »

yoz-y wrote: post #629
verst wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1 standard drink. Did you know that a US standard drink for beer is 12 ounces (a pint is 16) at 5% alcohol by volume? In the PNW Pints Are the standard size and definitely stronger than 5%. Also the German standard drink size for beer is less than 12 fluid ounces. Similar differences exist for other beverage types. These comparisons are not only difficult, but the survey takers vastly underreport their actual consump…

I though the standard beer in Europe was always 500ml.

Nope.

In most restaurants and bars, 300ml is the standard size, sometimes even 250ml. 500ml is considered a big beer. 300ml is also the standard size at festivities, concerts and sports games.

In Colone, the standard size of the local beer (Kölsch) is 200ml, but 300ml is also common.

In the south of Germany, especially bavaria, 500ml is the standard size in restaurants, and 1L at festivities and in bars run by breweries. 500ml is also the standard size of wheat beers nearly everywhere.

In shops, you can get beers in bottles of 330ml and 500ml.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#679

Post by leokennis »

RalfWausE wrote: post #669
leokennis wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from The Netherlands. I won't throw a fit to get anyone to stop drinking. But it's pretty obvious that drinking, even one beer per day, on a societal scale leads to more obesity, more sickness, more violence etc. And the accompanying healthcare, police etc. spending. Again, drink if you want. It's allowed. But don't pretend that it is unproblematic/healthy/natural/without consequences. Just admit (or at least do…

That is what i want to say: Everything has consequeces! Nothing good comes without the bad, you will have to "pay a price" for everything... even when the "price" is a less enjoyed life ;-) What really bothers me is that it seems that the western culture is (at least from my perspective) striving to become a totally clean, political correct, vegan, moral and abstinent society. Something like the society in "Demoliton…

It depends. Sure, we cannot be perfect. But not being racist has no downsides. Not drinking has no downsides. Same for several other of our vices.

So if there's no downside...why don't we stop?

Re: America has a drinking problem

#680

Post by netizen-936824 »

saiya-jin wrote: post #671
tick_tock_tick wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inequality does create diversity as it gives people a vastly different life experiences.

Just wow... I guess you would have different sentiment if you would be on the poor side of the inequality scale. Sentiment about poverty being good because it gives 'vastly different life experiences'? One of the things we can be actually proud here in Europe (mainly western part though), a rather strong middle class and tons of help to the poor (maybe too much according to some). I know its nice to find cheap poor f…

People love to make excuses for shitty behavior, such as calling the US an experiment
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