Earlier quoted context omitted.
You understand that white people are literally pink right? And there is an effective white guy target at many workplaces: all but one. People choose other people like themselves. The preposterous nature of your contention is that I would be passed over for being too white? Well, I would simply take one of the many other jobs my strategic class and race positioning allows me to take.
The Asian students that can't get into Harvard despite higher scores disagree with you.
Changes at Basecamp
671–680 of 853 posts
Re: Changes at Basecamp
#672Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Microsoft may want lower taxes from Republicans, but they also want easier immigration and gay rights from Democrats. That's probably why they donate to both parties: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/microsoft-corp/recipients?i...
One could also argue that they donate to both parties because they want to have influence over whomever wins any election. It may be totally divorced from ideology.
Re: Changes at Basecamp
#673Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There is no quota. There are goals to improve these numbers. But there is no quota in the professional world. You're simply misinformed on this. I have direct primary source information from recruiting personnel in "Google and Facebook and Amazon and Microsoft" that there are significant specific quota'd positions. These programs leaking to non-woke press is going to be an outrage.
Quotas are against federal law.
Re: Changes at Basecamp
#674Earlier quoted context omitted.
This has been covered to death wrt the Harvard discrimination scandal. Asians do (on average) score higher. Asians were discriminated against due to this.
As if admission into Harvard (and most other elite schools) is solely based on test scores (and even grades). Give me a break. For reasons folks may or may not agree with, most elite schools look at a wider range of factors than just scores and grades. Does this lead to there being room for discrimination? Yes. Does it guarantee that discrimination is happening? No. Just as a simple example, there are plenty of non-A…
Re: Changes at Basecamp
#675Earlier quoted context omitted.
> While Muslim support for same sex marriage crossed the 50% mark a couple of years ago, it’s completely rejected within the community itself. Honestly, this is one of the reasons I don't like to reach for statistics in this kind of debate - because of what you've highlighted here. The numbers on the survey say one thing, but they paint a rosier picture than reality. > My aunts don’t want to grant government sanction…
It's frustrating to see the goalposts in these discussions move from "most of us agree the state shouldn't do anything to penalize same-sex couples" to "we should litigate what's in the heart of Rayiner's aunt".
I also find the goalpost moving extremely frustrating, but we should be clear about who is actually moving that: the people reading calls for "acceptance" into discussion of a shitty thing that happens to LGBT people at work.
Re: Changes at Basecamp
#676Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're not really wrong, on any point. But you did make an interesting connection, that a lot of people are making: "Tolerance is [...] not approving everything." It's honestly fascinating to me that this keeps coming up. I never asked for approval - the hypothetical I continually stick to is "this policy could allow someone to label me saying 'my husband and I ...' as 'political speech', and silence that aspect of m…
People, including me, are making the "tolerance is not approval" connection because we look at society and see a lot of tolerance and then we see lots of people who conflate tolerance with approval, sometimes explicitly, e.g. if someone says "I am very tolerant, I support gay marriage," they are using the word "tolerant" wrong. Your argument is basically "my relationship is political because I am gay". I disagree. I…
My argument is "my relationship is political because I am gay" and part of why I make that argument is because people have told me they think it's political.
So - you disagree. About what, precisely? If you don't want to believe me that this has happened to me, and happened to others, that's something only you can decide and control.
But it would be nice if you could at least assume I'm telling you the truth about my own life and experiences, and engage in debate accordingly. Otherwise just be up front about the fact that you don't think I'm telling the truth about this, or that you think I'm wildly mistaken.
Re: Changes at Basecamp
#677Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's frustrating to see the goalposts in these discussions move from "most of us agree the state shouldn't do anything to penalize same-sex couples" to "we should litigate what's in the heart of Rayiner's aunt".
It's quite hard when people keep hearing "and now I want your Aunt to accept gay people, fully, in her heart" when all I keep saying is "some people might use this as cover to harass gay people, because that's historically what they've done." I also find the goalpost moving extremely frustrating, but we should be clear about who is actually moving that: the people reading calls for "acceptance" into discussion of a s…
But this litigation of what's inside people's heads, when what they're publicly advocating for and voting for is the position we're asking of them in the first place, just makes me think we're surveilling for people to be angry at, because it gives us a dopamine hit.
We're not being asked to associate with anyone's aunt here and I think we should try to keep to the topic at hand.
Re: Changes at Basecamp
#678Earlier quoted context omitted.
> conservative politics in the UD make some people’s entire existence political, full stop Funny, as a conservative minority in a straight white liberal company, my entire existence isn’t just political, it’s apparently a moral imperative that I be reminded on a daily basis that people like myself not only shouldn’t have a voice, we shouldn’t be allowed to exist in society at all. Full stop. It’s made quite clear tha…
I don't know your lived experience. I'm going to try not to doubt it. Maybe your coworkers are toxic and you are trying to talk to them about why low taxes are good because they encourage innovation, and that government-run agencies are not as efficient as private enterprises, and they are screaming the Communist Manifesto back at you. But in my experience, that's not the kinds of opinions that I see the modern disco…
As an example, a couple months ago at the start of a dev meeting, my boss made a joke about a protest organized by business owners in the area urging our governor to open up businesses. It was covered as a largely conservative group.
Here’s roughly how that went:
Boss: “Doesn’t seem like a chance of this lockdown ending with all of those morons protesting this week”
Coworker A: “Yeah, it’s scary how many of them think the virus doesn’t exist”
Coworker B (imitating conservatives): “I’ll just shoot at the virus with my gun”
Everyone laughs
Coworker A: “The problem is they’re just not educated. If only we could steal their kids away and take them to some private education camp”
Boss grunts with agreement.
Coworker B: “Or they should just be prevented from having kids at all”
Coworker A: “Maybe it’s for the best that they’re the ones that will die off. Natural selection at work.”
Everyone laughs. Then the meeting starts.
It escalates so quickly, in an awkward “half joking” way, that at no point to I feel able to jump in and provide perspective that many of them feel their livelihoods are threatened. That maybe we’re lucky that we haven’t missed a paycheck. That maybe they’re protesting not out of ignorance, but rather perspective we don’t have.
Sometimes it’s simpler - my boss jokes that a neighbor put up a Trump sign and he “always thought they seemed like inbreds”, or a coworker questions why his friends daughter is dating a conservative who “hates women”.
Is that my cue to explain “actually, I’m a conservative but believe strongly in women’s equality” or “hey, just because I have strong feelings about the 2nd amendment precisely as a means for women and minorities to protect themselves doesn’t mean I’m a bigot or an inbred?”
To be fair, I have not outed myself as either a conservative or LGBTQ. Maybe they would think twice about what they say if I do. Maybe these are perfectly innocent jokes using a form of hyperbole that I’m just not getting.
But I’ve also had plenty of conversations with friends and family along the “I wish gay people would keep it to themselves” and “kids need a mom and dad”. In those cases I’ve always felt able to have a discussion advocating against their ideas without feeling like my tires would be slashed in the parking lot.
Re: Changes at Basecamp
#679Earlier quoted context omitted.
"How well you fit in our team", especially when applied to things like interviewing and hiring, often has a strong correlation with "are you not a member of an underrepresented group", often unintentionally.
That is strange. When I do interviews, I will look if this is a nice person, if this is a professional person. I don't really think about which "group" they might belong to.
I think some humility is in order. It's possible that one is a perfect, unbiased judge of character. On the other hand it's possible that one is just human, with a predilection for equating "like me and my friends" to "nice" or "professional".
Re: Changes at Basecamp
#680Earlier quoted context omitted.
Since you wrote the "pink" analogy and this post too, I can respond here: The issue of anti-asian quotas at major american universities is absolutely a legitimate one that needs addressing. Here's why it's a little bit more complicated than just: "Let's just remove all criteria for university admission besides high scores. That won't discriminate against asians and be a true meritocracy". Because then, the amount of…
> There is no quota. There are goals to improve these numbers. But there is no quota in the professional world. You're simply misinformed on this. I have direct primary source information from recruiting personnel in "Google and Facebook and Amazon and Microsoft" that there are significant specific quota'd positions. These programs leaking to non-woke press is going to be an outrage.