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Coinbase S-1

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Re: Coinbase S-1

#671

Post by catmanjan »

hntrader wrote: post #604
cmdli wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those things have intrinsic value in that they bring people some measure of joy. Bitcoin, by comparison, brings people very little joy in and of itself (you might argue it provides entertainment value, it certainly does for me). Not saying Bitcoin is worthless; it's a currency and it has it's uses, which makes it worth something. However, I think the belief that "it's scarce, therefore its worth something" is…

"it's scarce, therefore its worth something" That's not the argument being made. My paintings are scarce but they're worthless. Lots and lots of scarce things are worthless, and rightfully so. "bring people some measure of joy." Right, so there's some aesthetic value there. Why can't BTC be like the Ancient Egyptian artefact that's valued purely on aesthetic grounds? I could plausibly see it as a historical artefact…

Artefacts and stamps bring joy by being able to show your friends, maybe your friends like looking at your wallet, but mine wouldn't...

Re: Coinbase S-1

#673

Post by garmaine »

yao420 wrote: post #655
hntrader wrote: post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also illustrates the lack of competition due to US regulations preventing foreign exchanges (many of them signficiantly larger and cheaper than Coinbase) from serving US customers. Very few people outside the US trade on Coinbase because they have monopoly margins.

I’m starting to feel this is a positive and all countries should do this. I know China gets a lot of flack for doing the same thing but maybe they are right? Better to have a local company do well and contribute to the local economy than to send profits overseas and be subject to global corps.

It’s not better for you or me, who are forced to pay those rates.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#674

Post by dcolkitt »

yao420 wrote: post #655
hntrader wrote: post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also illustrates the lack of competition due to US regulations preventing foreign exchanges (many of them signficiantly larger and cheaper than Coinbase) from serving US customers. Very few people outside the US trade on Coinbase because they have monopoly margins.

I’m starting to feel this is a positive and all countries should do this. I know China gets a lot of flack for doing the same thing but maybe they are right? Better to have a local company do well and contribute to the local economy than to send profits overseas and be subject to global corps.

Disagree. But much better for domestic consumers to get the best prices and highest quality. I don't care if a Chinese or American magnate becomes a billionaire. I care that millions of middle-class Americans get the best deal possible.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#675

Post by vmception »

chadash wrote: post #553
vmception wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

scarcity and liquidity then? there’s nothing wrong with low float assets, really seems like you are making a separate higher standard for bitcoin yes all cryptocurrencies inherit that capability to an extent, just have to convince others to share the same view, with the security of the database becoming the limiting factor the future value of bitcoin are the drivers of its scarcity, if all of those drivers are too in…

> scarcity and liquidity So it's valuable because it's scarce and it's liquid because it's valuable? I imagine you can see how a skeptic might view this. I would be skeptical of gold coins too, but for the fact that a gold coin today would have been valuable in ancient Rome as well. So I don't really understand why gold is so valuable, but the fact that it's been very valuable (to varying degrees) for 5000 years lead…

interest in bitcoin can completely evaporate, and the same is true for gold.

you needed to hear it, so there it is. having more bitcoin than you need isn't for you, owning bitcoin when you don't need it isn't for you.

the reasons people own bitcoin are all of the reasons people own gold and more. it inherits the same sentiment and does it better. do with that what you will.

just remember that the oft cited tulip bubble and the beanie baby bubble are not examples of irrational behavior. Tulips was a derivatives contract discrepancy that ended in a few months after the bubonic plague killed the traders, the spot market was unaffected and we dont know what would have otherwise happened. Beanie babies had accurate proce information from expected permanent supply chain failure, which ended from a surprise supply increase flooding the market. Only the equities bubbles were irrational.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#676

Post by dodobirdlord »

jsutton wrote: post #598
dodobirdlord wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the general perspective of Bitcoin specifically around here meshes with the general stance on a lot of topics. Bitcoin is the 1.0 cryptocurrency. It was groundbreaking, but it has technological deficiencies that are/were being addressed by improvements in the general technology of cryptocurrencies. But the Bitcoin protocol itself has demonstrated to be impossible to modernize, as even the most trivial change…

Why does Bitcoin need to modernize? There are other crypto projects that can fill in the holes that Bitcoin leaves (tx fees, slow, etc). Bitcoin is a fully secure, fully self-sufficient, global monetary system. It doesn't need to be lightning fast or super cheap. It needs to WORK, and work very well, which it has demonstrated.

> Why does Bitcoin need to modernize?

Because ASIC vulnerability has led to the concentration of the majority of the world's mining power among a small number of organizations in China, and because the amount of power consumed securing the blockchain with PoW is silly and ever-increasing.

> There are other crypto projects that can fill in the holes that Bitcoin leaves (tx fees, slow, etc).

It's not just about filling holes, other cryptocurrency projects are superior technologically in every way. And since Bitcoin has been demonstrated to be impossible to modernize this gap will only become more extreme over time.

Bitcoin remains the locus of the cryptocurrency movement through network effects alone, which is why evangelists are so adamantly in favor of Bitcoin specifically. If it loses its throne as the "main" cryptocurrency it will never increase in price to the value that Bitcoin speculators are hoping because other than its network size it has no advantages.

> It needs to WORK, and work very well, which it has demonstrated.

I think it has categorically demonstrated that it does not work, at least not for the purpose that the original Bitcoin paper laid out. The fact that Bitcoin transactions are slow and expensive has so compellingly demonstrated that Bitcoin cannot be a useful cryptocurrency that even Bitcoin advocates admit this and have fallen back to claiming that it will instead be a store of value and that an effective currency layer could be built on top of it.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#677

Post by Solvitieg »

technick wrote: post #657
jsutton wrote: post #593

I find it interesting (sad, actually) that most other S-1 posts on here are congratulatory for the most part, giving kudos to the teams (look at the DO one today). However, when it comes to anything crypto related, the emotions really come out. It's all "bitcoin/crypto is useless, doesn't solve any problem, waste of talent." For a community of hackers, there really seems to be a lack of vision when it comes to crypto…

true, as a 20+ year sec guy, I didn't get interested in crypto till I started buying it in 2017. I might be able to retire in under 5 years if crypto keeps growing at the rate.

Perhaps you're being intentionally tongue in cheek. But the implication of your comment is that you like Bitcoin because it has made you wealthy.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#678

Post by leppr »

whiskyant wrote: post #669
efitz wrote: post #341

Coinbase’ customer support is crap. You van only get someone on the phone if your account is compromised; anything else goes to email, and they respond when they get around to it. Also their email verification system for transfers fails frequently causing transfers to be canceled. Pretty convenient way for them to keep your money. I am biased but I’m pretty unhappy with coinbase right now.

Yup, it's been almost two months since I've originally messaged support about being unable to access my account. They said they would schedule a security interview, then never followed through. I don't know how it's legal for a company to lock your account w/ funds with no explanation for this long.

I've had the same problem. They locked my account which I was using since 2015 by invalidating my KYC and refusing new verification attempts. The support emails take days/weeks to get answered or stay ignored, and didn't lead anywhere.

Thankfully I had installed the mobile app on an old phone, and I was able to login through the app and withdraw my funds.

That's damning both for their customer support and their security. Good thing they have decent existing and upcoming competitors.

I don't see the $100B valuation sustaining unless it becomes another meme stock ala TSLA. But then we're back to our issue, most Tesla users love their car, most Coinbase users hate it. How could it get widespread retail endorsement?

Re: Coinbase S-1

#679

Post by quickthrower2 »

dang wrote: post #633
panarky wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you're right, maybe this illustrates my own cognitive bias. Of course that Day 1 post doesn't reflect the HN discussion since then, and current comments don't either. But more small-sample-size anecdata would be to look at recent comments: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... Of the 20 most recent comments, I'd say 12 are negative, 4 are positive and 4 are neutral. (Your comment sho…

Oh yes, but that's a much different question and is strongly conditioned by where Bitcoin and cryptocurrency are in the hype cycle (I'm using that term empirically, not normatively). You'll find at least that much negativity about other technologies and startups that have gotten to similar stages of (let's call it) ultrasuccess. Just look at the threads on Airbnb or Uber, for example. They're so vitriolic and repetit…

There tends to be ethical concerns as things get this big that apply to all of: Bitcoin, Airbnb, Uber.

Try Dropbox or even Digital Ocean for a more loved company/idea.

Re: Coinbase S-1

#680

Post by quickthrower2 »

quartus wrote: post #611

Anyone else care to comment on the S-1 itself? Revenues doubling, and a rare example of a tech company that is actually profitable before IPO (to the tune of $320M net profit on $1.1B in revenue). Seems like a great business to me! Given current market conditions, I wouldn't be surprised to see a market cap on first day of trading of $50B or more

I wonder if they are buying Bitcoin with profits like is all the rage these days
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