‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#671

Post by dragonwriter » Sun, Nov 29, 2020, 7:39 PM UTC

LunaSea wrote: post #655

dragonwriter wrote: post #652

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So the company should fire someone that hasn't been found guilty, simply based on one person's complaint? No, the company should investigate and have evidence, one way or the other, beyond just the complaint before any kind of final action, though there are some interim precautionary mitigations that are might be appropriate, often. > Where did "innocent until proven guilty" go? “Innocent until proven guilty” is a…

> No, the company should investigate and have evidence, one way or the other, beyond just the complaint before any kind of final action, though there are some interim precautionary mitigations that are might be appropriate, often. No, the company isn't equipped for this and this is the role of the police and judicial system. > “Innocent until proven guilty” is a maxim of criminal law; a company treating potential har…

> No, the company isn't equipped for this and this is the role of the police and judicial system.

It's literally not; sexual harassment is a civil, not criminal, offense. The police have no concern with it at all, except that some sexual harassment is also a crime (e.g., rape, solicitation of prostitution, etc.)

But employers have legal liability for sexual harassment, which only gets more severe as it continues and they fail to act, whether or not there is a crime involved.

They cannot delegate this responsibility to the police.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#672

Post by nerdponx » Sun, Nov 29, 2020, 11:41 PM UTC

LunaSea wrote: post #649

nerdponx wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure. I think it probably applies in personal life. But is there an imperative to 1) bring it into the workplace, and 2) to fall in line with any specific group and their chosen preferred language/actions? I'm equivocal on both of these. In the case of (1), why should the act of fighting injustice pause by some notion of decorum at work? Where should our priorities and values lie? In the case of (2), many peo…

If (1) is true, shouldn't companies have the right to fire you due to political reasons / disagreement?

That's a good question. I don't have a good answer.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#673

Post by chordalkeyboard » Mon, Nov 30, 2020, 12:25 AM UTC

Veelox wrote: post #666

chordalkeyboard wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most other tech firms make a specific effort to recruit Black people, promote them, and support causes Black people support. Really? "Most other tech firms" do this?

I mean you have articles like these https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2020-06-24... being written.

> Baltimore said that he’s glad more people are talking about the problem, but that what’s really needed is “boots on the ground”: consistent money, time and leadership dedicated to actively bringing more Black tech professionals and investors into the industry.

That doesn't sound like "most companies" in the tech industry actively seeking and hiring minorities. Perhaps they do and articles like these are deceptive?

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#674

Post by mempko » Mon, Nov 30, 2020, 1:07 AM UTC

seibelj wrote: post #168

mempko wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't separate work from politics. The fact that you have a job in the first place is political.

And your “everything is political even the apple you eat” post-modernist schlock is the attitude I want to avoid.

Nothing post modern about it. From the financial system to the rules governing corporate ownership and taxes, they are all political. These these absolutely dominate your day to day life. Even the fact that there is an internet was a political decision (see ARPA then DARPA).

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#675

Post by Veelox » Mon, Nov 30, 2020, 1:13 AM UTC

chordalkeyboard wrote: post #673

Veelox wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean you have articles like these https://www.latimes.com/business/technology/story/2020-06-24... being written.

> Baltimore said that he’s glad more people are talking about the problem, but that what’s really needed is “boots on the ground”: consistent money, time and leadership dedicated to actively bringing more Black tech professionals and investors into the industry. That doesn't sound like "most companies" in the tech industry actively seeking and hiring minorities. Perhaps they do and articles like these are deceptive?

Google does https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/google-...

Apple does "For the past five years, we’ve continued to hire more women and underrepresented minorities every year." https://www.apple.com/diversity/

Facebook does "We’re committed to building a workforce that’s as diverse as the communities we serve" https://www.facebook.com/careers/facebook-life/diversity

I would look up others but I think those three make the point. Companies are actively hiring underrepresented minorities. Yes some people think more effort should be put in but to say it isn't happening is being ignorant of reality.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#676

Post by throwawayriver » Mon, Nov 30, 2020, 1:45 AM UTC

sumedh wrote: post #641

throwawayriver wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>yes it, why do you support people who abuse I don't, and neither should the company, which is why they should call the police. >why should they still be kept in the company if the evidence is credible? Company is free to fire criminals if they want, no issues there. Many don't hire criminals to begin with, since your criminal history is public. >So does it mean now you understood why some people dont want file a pol…

> Company is free to fire criminals if they want They are not yet criminals though. > If you're the victim of a crime, report the crime to the police. and you still dont get it.

>They are not yet criminals though.

They're free to fire, furlough, place on paid leave, etc.

>and you still dont get it.

And there you go with the IMAX-level projection; it's painfully obvious you have no clue.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#677

Post by chordalkeyboard » Mon, Nov 30, 2020, 1:52 AM UTC

Veelox wrote: post #675

chordalkeyboard wrote: post #673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Baltimore said that he’s glad more people are talking about the problem, but that what’s really needed is “boots on the ground”: consistent money, time and leadership dedicated to actively bringing more Black tech professionals and investors into the industry. That doesn't sound like "most companies" in the tech industry actively seeking and hiring minorities. Perhaps they do and articles like these are deceptive?

Google does https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/google-... Apple does "For the past five years, we’ve continued to hire more women and underrepresented minorities every year." https://www.apple.com/diversity/ Facebook does "We’re committed to building a workforce that’s as diverse as the communities we serve" https://www.facebook.com/careers/facebook-life/diversity I would look up others but I think…

> I would look up others but I think those three make the point. Companies are actively hiring underrepresented minorities.

I was questioning the assertion that it was most companies. Three companies, no statistics showing actual improvement, that doesn't make the point. Thanks for the links. It looks like Google is having trouble achieving this goal, since the article you linked shows the same percentage of minorities year to year. Apple says they have made progress, which is good. The facebook link doesn't have any numbers. Apple says "53% of new hires in the U.S. are from historically underrepresented groups in tech" but it doesn't give a timeframe or provide statistics that show how much of their workforce is minority or how much improvement they have made. I'm not sure that public relations boilerplate actually translates to a commitment to a diverse workforce.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#678

Post by throwawayriver » Mon, Nov 30, 2020, 2:00 AM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #654

throwawayriver wrote: post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>yes it, why do you support people who abuse I don't, and neither should the company, which is why they should call the police. >why should they still be kept in the company if the evidence is credible? Company is free to fire criminals if they want, no issues there. Many don't hire criminals to begin with, since your criminal history is public. >So does it mean now you understood why some people dont want file a pol…

> I don't, and neither should the company, which is why they should call the police. Sexual harassment generally is not a crime (though it overlaps with some crimes), and even if there is a crime involved the police and public prosecutor are under no obligation to do anything about it. The employer, however, is under an enforceable legal obligation to do something about harassment.

"Sexual harassment" is a blanket term for various behaviors that are criminal.

Unwarranted touching is sexual assault, sexual messages are illegal harassment, etc.

>even if there is a crime involved the police and public prosecutor are under no obligation to do anything about it.

Immaterial since that can be applied to anything, criminal or civil.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#679

Post by CryptoPunk » Mon, Nov 30, 2020, 2:10 AM UTC

jahaja wrote: post #667

CryptoPunk wrote: post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definition at the outset of the article is accurate, and consistent with what I said: >>Institutional racism, also known as systemic racism, is a form of racism that is embedded as normal practice within society or an organization. Anything "embedded as normal practice" is either part of the formal rules of the organization, or its informal social contract, just as I described. Much of the rest of the article doe…

Alright, so you've redefined the entire concept into something else and then went about dismissing the established concept entirely. Because that is, unlike your objective science, based on "extremely ideologically biased humanities and social sciences". Good for you. > I think the end of Jim Crow laws was the end of most institutional racism, with some remnants of it existing in the social contract that was quickly…

I'm referring to the terms "institutional" and "racism", when put together. If an ideological camp wants to put the terms together, and refer to a class of properties that are not both institutional and racism, I have no obligation to accept their arbitrary redefinition of the terms, and I can point out that the term is extremely misleading, like the "wage slavery" used by Marxists.

>>This is just staring oneself blind on the letter of law, ignoring everything else. That's not how societies work.

This is just ignoring what the terms "institutional" and "racism" mean, to push a grievance ideology narrative that castigates society.

I'm commenting on "institutional racism", not racism in general. Institutional racism is "racism that is embedded as normal practice within society", which only occurs through the mechanism of systemic properties like its laws or rules, or its social contract, just as I explained.

>>It's pointless to discuss subjects with someone who will just redefine them entirely and then refuse to even recognize anything else

You're the one redefining "institutional" and "racism", and resorting to ad hominem when any one points out the pure absurdity of your narrative.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#680

Post by CryptoPunk » Mon, Nov 30, 2020, 2:13 AM UTC

i-write-comment wrote: post #632

2-tpg wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you agree or disagree with the statement that "accusing cops of intentional cold-blooded racist-motivated murder on the basis of his and his victim's skin color, without presumption of innocence, sourced from emotion, and with mob justice, is a major problem in American society"? See how you can disagree or agree with my question, while your goal-post moving question can only be agreed to if you are a reasonabl…

> You are debating from very bad faith, and debating poorly at that You're clearly not trying to "debate" out of a neutral position. You are tossing out a mix of unrelated facts and lies in an attempt to prove that George Floyd's murder was not racially motivated, or that he was actually dying from a fentanyl OD so the cop's behavior would have been fine for a healthy person, or not even to prove anything but to pain…

>>You're clearly not trying to "debate" out of a neutral position.

I recommend you practice some introspection, because this statement is so out-of-touch with your own obvious bias and ideological perspective, that it makes discussion with you almost pointless.

>>in an attempt to prove that George Floyd's murder was not racially motivated

There is absolutely no proof Floyd's murder was racially motivated.