Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

statewatch.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

671–680 of 780 posts

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#671

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

tempestn wrote: post #503
part1of2 wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You did not define a conflict or the unintended consequence here

The unwanted consequence of the US second amendment is that the US has one of the highest gun death rates in the developed world.

This is a bit of a hobby interest of mine. While it's possible that your statement is true, I think it misses the point. Gun murders in the U.S. are a very low percentage of deaths (0.39%) and preventable deaths (~1.1%, there's some disagreement about what's "preventable"). This excludes suicides. You may wish to include them if that makes sense given your interests. People love to focus on relative comparisons (e.g., Scotland vs. US), but miss the forest for the trees. Some tiny proportion being 5x some other country's tiny proportion is irrelevent.

If your goal is to prevent untimely, unwanted deaths there are oh so many other ways to apply your resources that will yield orders of magnitude more improvement per dollar / per minute.

People like to pay attention to it anyway for a few reasons. One is that we evolved to think specifically about interpersonal violence (~5-15% of prehistoric deaths, but way more than that for non-old people), which makes us good at luridly imagining interpersonal violence, and so comparatively we're bad at thinking about an early death due to diabetes and therefore bad at caring about it. Another reason is it's a hot-button red team/blue team political issue, so it's not so much about the issue per se but rather whether $OTHER_SIDE gets what it wants or not.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#672

Post by [deleted] »

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #615
bergstromm466 wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obesity does not imply over-use of food with high nutritional value. In other words, obesity comes from worse diets. The working classes are bombarded with corporate foods that contain way too much sugar, etc.

You still have to overeat to become obese. It does imply over-use of food, and at the same time diets may have gotten worse.

[deleted]

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#673

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

KMag wrote: post #516
tempestn wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unwanted consequence of the US second amendment is that the US has one of the highest gun death rates in the developed world.

The U.S. certainly has a problem with gun violence, but I fear gun access is the proximal problem while our cultural relationship with violence and revenge is the root of the problem. (See also death penalty support, recent violent protests in Oregon and Washington, etc.) Note that the areas with very high rates of legal gun ownership aren't the hotspots of gun violence [0]. Switzerland and several other Eurpean coun…

I agree with you. I don't have any answers to your question, but it made me think about it. It strikes me as insightful and the right question to ask.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#674

Post by qayxc »

toxik wrote: post #304
qayxc wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My serious question is this: how do we stop terrorism and criminals when they have access to military grade encryption technology? You don't and technology has nothing to with it either. Terrorism is as old as government itself and doesn't need the internet in order to function. Radicalisation takes place in many places and law enforcement as well as national intelligence agencies have put their focus away from goo…

I think you missed the part where law enforcement has problems putting criminals behind bars because there is too little evidence. This happens all the time.

Three of the terrorists involved in recent attacks in Germany and Austria had been behind bars already.

This is not as big a problem as it's made out to be. These guys aren't mobsters or professional fraudsters - they're violent criminals and (domestic) terrorists with no regards for covering their tracks.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#675

Post by dleslie »

tsar_bomba wrote: post #531
dleslie wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world is so safe that instead of dying from war, famine or untreatable infectious disease, those in developed countries are dying from diseases of wealth and comfort.

Suicide is not a disease of comfort. Obesity is not a disease of wealth, for food (and junk food) is incredibly inexpensive in the developed world today, likely no more expensive than heavy smoking, alcohol, cocaine or opiates. These are diseases of overpopulation, loss of freedom and control over one's life and general lack of anything to live for in the future. Mouse utopia comes to mind.

I vouched you up; I appreciate good discussion.

It's true that obesity is an affliction related to poverty; but it is related to poverty in nations of relative wealth and comfort. Access to that cheap and terrible food relies upon a logistics system that is heavily resistent to famine and blight.

Those in poverty who are dying from obesity related diseases are not dying in work place accidents, and are not dying in war or from untreatible infections. They didn't die in a pandemic.

The opportunity to die of obesity related diseases is tied to the relative safety and comfort of the nations in which the late individuals were impoverished.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#676

Post by dleslie »

bergstromm466 wrote: post #555
dleslie wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world is so safe that instead of dying from war, famine or untreatable infectious disease, those in developed countries are dying from diseases of wealth and comfort.

Obesity does not imply over-use of food with high nutritional value. In other words, obesity comes from worse diets. The working classes are bombarded with corporate foods that contain way too much sugar, etc.

You don't get as much chance to die from obesity related diseases if you've died in a war, famine, pandemic, or from coal lung or crushed to death in a factory accident.

It afflicts the poor in relatively comfortable and safe nations.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#677

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

jordanbeiber wrote: post #544
freeflight wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Switzerland and several other Eurpean countries have very high rates of gun ownership, but low rates of gun violence. They also have vastly stricter gun regulation laws, and while ownership rates are high in some, the US is an extreme outlier and no other country comes even close. Because nobody in any European country thinks they have a "right" to own a gun, most of them could if they wanted to, but they simply do…

The fact so many people feel they need a gun for safety is the first and biggest issue IMO. This is fueled by movies and culture - have the gun in your possession and you’ll automatically win the fight - that was easy! I’ve read countless comments from Americans that they have a gun to shoot intruders. Statistics telling you there’s a bigger chance someone else will get hurt be damned. These ideas are have to be fuel…

I think you're on the mark talking about them as toys for adults. I don't think most people want them because they really fear for their safety without, though the ability to defend oneself may be a bonus. My feeling is mostly it's just a fun hobby and it's also a clear signal of group membership.

I think your claim about there being a higher chance of accidental injury vs. self defense is probably wrong. The issue is a little muddy, but there are only ~800 firearms accidental deaths per year (0.00024% of pop.) and about 50,000 self-defense uses per year (https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf)

I'm also not convinced about movies. I bet other places have very similar mixes of actual watching and the same selection given the internet.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#678

Post by contravariant »

Arathorn wrote: post #547
gfxgirl wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While adding backdoors to encryption is a bad idea my gut sys decentralized reputation is just a bad. Most here know the Black Mirror episode "Nosedive". But it's worse than that, people on different sides of the political spectrum will work to "cancel" people of the other side by working to lower their rep via crowdsourcing. 4chan type groups will do the same for "the lulz", I can even imagine the ransomware people…

Totally agreed that badly designed rep systems can rapidly descend into Black Mirror territory. In Nosedive for instance the score you get is absolute, while the thing we’re proposing here is entirely relative and subjective. The idea is to empower users to maintain their own view of the world. If a voting ring of idiots conspire to try to trash someone’s reputation... you’d filter out the voting ring from your reput…

Maybe you've answered this point already somewhere but how exactly are you planning to make censorship (for lack of a better word) stand out?

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#679

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

KMag wrote: post #667
bigbizisverywyz wrote: post #655

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The fact so many people feel they need a gun for safety is the first and biggest issue IMO. And the reason for that is simple - marketing. Here in Switzerland I basically see no guns unless I go to the shooting club. There's none sold in the shops, there's none advertised in newspapers, tv or on the radio. And there is definitely no gun offered when opening a bank account. Basically if you want a gun for whatever re…

I spent over 30 years in the U.S., mostly in the upper Midwest, and the only gun advertisements I remember seeing were in sporting magazines or in sporting goods stores. I think your perceptions of U.S. gun advertising is either greatly exaggerated, or your experience is from a very different part of the country. Maybe things have changed drastically in the 8 years since I left, but I doubt it.

Agreed, people who aren't in to firearms or firearms-related sports will basically never see an ad for a gun in the U.S. I do think the penis-extension bit gets the gist of much of the marketing that does exist right, though.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#680

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

jfk13 wrote: post #591
jordanbeiber wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact so many people feel they need a gun for safety is the first and biggest issue IMO. This is fueled by movies and culture - have the gun in your possession and you’ll automatically win the fight - that was easy! I’ve read countless comments from Americans that they have a gun to shoot intruders. Statistics telling you there’s a bigger chance someone else will get hurt be damned. These ideas are have to be fuel…

> Statistics telling you there’s a bigger chance someone else will get hurt be damned Nobody believes the statistics are relevant to them . Statistics are about all those dumb other people; but I'm always the smart, responsible exception.

As I mentioned elsewhere, I think those urban-legend statistics are probably wrong in aggregate. That said, people do have knowledge about their specific situation that they bring to bear in a valid way. Crazy, violent ex? Yeah, your ratio of chances of using a gun in a way that makes sense to chances of accidentally hurting someone is way better than average.
Post reply on HN