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Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

reuters.com

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Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#671

Post by DiogenesKynikos »

bluGill wrote: post #654
jberryman wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is if the two groups behave differently wrt risk then the trial is probably ruined. Maybe you're assuming the vaccine will be 100% effective; experts I've heard are saying to expect something like the flu shot.

Experts need to control to control expections. The flu shot like 50% effenceny is a possibility, and we know anti vaxxers latch onto that with confused statistics. The flu shot is poorly effective because the flu mutates though, covid is more stable so odds are that the vaccine will be more effective, but we are still playing odds of something we don't know, so it is best to assume the worse.

The flu vaccine is more effective at preventing serious disease than it is at preventing infection. Even a vaccine that only prevents you from getting seriously ill can be incredibly useful.

The inactivated polio vaccine, for example, does not prevent infection. It just prevents disease. That means that it cannot confer herd immunity (vaccinated people can act as asymptomatic carriers, leaving unvaccinated people at risk), but for most people who are vaccinated, it eliminates the most serious consequence of polio infection - paralysis. The SARS-CoV-2 vaccines might end up being the same, conferring protection from disease but not from infection, and even that would be important.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#672

Post by bluGill »

standardUser wrote: post #214
dbetteridge wrote: post #3

OK, someone tell me why this isn't the good news it sounds like

It's great news, though at first I thought they had released Phase 3 results, which would be earth-shattering news. They are still the leading vaccine candidate and the one most likely to get approval this year (though the US press tends to ignore it in favor of covering the various US-originated vaccines that are also in Phase 3 trials).

I care about what I can personally get for my family. We are low on the list (able to stay home almost entirely unlike health care or retail). We are tired of this, and no end is in site. The US origin vaccines (some of them are one shot or require less care in handling seem like the ones that we need)

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#673

Post by bluGill »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #158
sanketskasar wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is the same. But you cannot expect a vaccine to work similarly in people of two different regions having major differences in their diet, climate and lifestyles. That's why many vaccine candidates are being tested in multiple countries( read potential markets). Also, I think the UK has preferential rights at least on the initial yield of the vaccine.

> But you cannot expect a vaccine to work similarly in people of two different regions having major differences in their diet, climate and lifestyles. Can you? Do you have any examples of successful vaccines that are only given in one region because they have been proven ineffective in a different region?

Cholesterol medication is given at lower doses to those with Asian background. Not a vaccine, and what is important is genetics not region.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#674

Post by refurb »

rusk wrote: post #667
refurb wrote: post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they get over the virus then they developed an immune response that won’t go away immediately. The question is how long does it last? Even if it lasts only 6 months, that’s still 6 months of protection.

Yes, and that is not what people think of when you say “immunity”

Really? All immunity is limited in time. That’s why we give booster shots.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#675

Post by tfew »

mikeyouse wrote: post #567
breakfastduck wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, that's just common sense, and something the media is actively choosing not to raise.

This idea that the "Media" is this sinister entity trying to stop the spread of good news during a pandemic which the entire world has taken drastic steps to curtail yet which has still killed over 1.1 million people is just so silly.

The media optimizes for eyeballs and attention, and hence we see hysterical, inaccurate, and fear-based reporting. With all the noise they put it, it absolutely does crowds out facts showing that the virus is now likely less deadly than it was in the earlier phase of the pandemic.

"If it bleeds, it leads"

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#676

Post by dTal »

12bytes wrote: post #615
thebruce87m wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe a stupid question, but do we need to vaccinate everyone? I remember reading that heard immunity is 70% or something - so could we get away with leaving the people out that it wasn’t tested on?

i haven't read through all the questions asked here, but yours is perhaps the least stupid i suspect you may already know the answer to your question; of course not everyone needs to be vaccinated - that's the job of any reasonably healthy immune system and this virus, which has not been properly isolated by the way, and that comes directly from the CDC, is not particularly dangerous, and that comes directly from the…

Been watching too much YouTube?

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#677

Post by komali2 »

kortilla wrote: post #448
guptaneil wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny you bring that up, because my comment originally even included a bit about how a lot of our current problems can be traced back to Reagan's presidency. He was previously governor of California. Guess when California stopped offering free higher education? Chicago is in Illinois, which has had a lot of flip-flopping between red and blue governors and has an infamous history of governors going to jail for co…

> He was previously governor of California. Guess when California stopped offering free higher education? And why hasn’t California added free public education or expanded housing in the last 20-30 years then?

Many cities have and are. It's worth pointing out that there are literally millions of Trump supporters here, and plenty of Republican politicians to boot. It's not like California is pure blue.

Plus, democrats are conservatives, so, it's not like they're automatically leftists just because they're blue.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#678

Post by _Microft »

strgcmc wrote: post #518
_Microft wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a good argument. We are talking about a company providing a service. They might not have invented the vaccine but they are providing the means to bring it from proof of concept into mass production. The commenter seemed to think that this isn't worth money. I argue that you get quite a bang for the buck.

It's not an "argument" per se, as in whether we should or shouldn't pay the pharma companies. Of course we should pay pharma for this for COVID, and of course it is "worth it." There is no argument (from me at least) about that tactical decision. My larger point is that for-profit pharma/healthcare is not a healthy marketplace (... or at best, it's an immature one). In the not-so-distant past (in America, up until th…

I was not familiar with the history of firefighting until now and this is pretty wild. Thank you for clarifying what you meant with your earlier comment. I agree that for-profit healthcare and pharma is a huge problem, exactly because of the misaligned incentives for companies and patients.

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#679

Post by BjoernKW »

refurb wrote: post #674
rusk wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and that is not what people think of when you say “immunity”

Really? All immunity is limited in time. That’s why we give booster shots.

Unfortunately and with COVID-19 in particular, many aspects seem to have become a matter of all-or-nothing propositions:

"The pandemic will only ever be over once the disease has been eliminated and there are no COVID19-related deaths or long-term effects anymore."

"Either the vaccine works in 100 per cent of cases or it doesn't work at all."

"It's either complete immunity for life or no immunity at all."

Re: Vaccine hopes rise as Oxford jab prompts immune response among old and young

#680

Post by rusk »

refurb wrote: post #674
rusk wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and that is not what people think of when you say “immunity”

Really? All immunity is limited in time. That’s why we give booster shots.

Well obviously. I’m saying there is little evidence for even this level of immunity.

You can get the disease, recover, and then catch it again.

There are other factors such as frequency of exposure and viral load.

It’s not like the flu where you catch it and you develop a resistance.

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