Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

671–680 of 996 posts

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#671

Post by hnick »

gridlockd wrote: post #357
misnome wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's preventing a console being used as a productivity platform? Isn't it just the artificial restriction on where you can get software for it from?

Its stated purpose. Sony once tried to get some tax advantages by classifying the PS3 as a general purpose computer, which they achieved through the "OtherOS" feature, which allowed you to run Linux. They later removed that feature, causing a class action lawsuit, which they settled.

Is it simple to find out what category Apple is importing iPhones under in various places? I had a quick search but not hitting anything relevant.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#672

Post by Animats »

klmadfejno wrote: post #563
Animats wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not clear how the Epic vs Apple war is going to come out, but both sides have doubled down on their positions, so it's probably going to take a while to resolve. So the worst case scenario, third party UE4 game devs being unable to get their game's code signed for MacOS or IOS installation, could happen.

That sounds improbable, and if enacted, grounds for a much heavier suit against Apple. Even if Apple has beef with Epic, I don't see how Apple could refuse third parties who want to use Epic's software as part of their product in Apple stores. There's an element of people using UE4 being in contract with Epic by default, but presumably Apple has no basis to say you must not have a business relationship with Epic in o…

See Washington Post coverage: "Apple cuts off Epic from its tools, endangering future Unreal Engine projects on iOS and Mac".[1] There's a certain amount of posturing here, but if neither side backs down and the court doesn't issue an injunction, further development with Unreal Engine on Apple platforms stops.

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/video-games/2020/08/17/apple-...

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#673

Post by iphone_elegance »

brundolf wrote: post #396
grishka wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And so that's why I never liked nor trusted this whole idea of code signing with non-self-signed certificates, especially on desktop OSes. This notarization mechanism introduced a single point of failure: Apple. And now there is concrete evidence of how exactly this is bad. On a device I own, there should be no parties that are trusted more than myself. It's ridiculous I even have to write this.

It's important to note that you can still run unsigned Mac apps. Apple isn't preventing users from running a tool they want to run, it's just showing them a big scary warning and making them jump through some extra hoops. It's incredibly scummy and inappropriate, but I would put it more along the lines of an attack-ad than an outright ban. Edit: Now, one thing that isn't totally clear is whether or not devs who have…

in catalina it's a total pain now, I stopped using a lot of software because of it

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#674

Post by zip1234 »

modeless wrote: post #386
pwinnski wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some might see a difference between "a developer who went public about their frustrations with the App Store" and a developer who deliberately violated the policies and then filed a lawsuit and started an extensive PR campaign.

Epic needed to demonstrate that they and consumers were harmed in order to have standing to sue. If Apple's policies are illegal then Epic is not bound to follow them and retaliation is unjustified. It won't be known until it's decided in court. That's why Epic's motion should be granted to prevent retaliation until the court decides.

How would Apple's policies be illegal? Epic entered a contractual agreement with Apple and then knowingly and intentionally broke it in order to benefit themselves.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#675

Post by iphone_elegance »

heavyset_go wrote: post #496
brundolf wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. I'm just saying, user-freedom is technically preserved. This is a huge inconvenience, and bad for Epic's business, but it's not a ban . As an owner of Mac hardware, I still have control over what I can do with my machine.

That's not freedom. Most users are going to think the unsigned app just doesn't work, and almost none of them are going to know that there is a magic ritual they need to perform in the Settings app to launch the program they wanted to run in the first place.

It's not possible in the settings app anymore.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#676

Post by vlod »

Wouldn't it be REALLY interesting if Unity stood by Epic?

i.e. if Epic is forced to stop making games, Unity will no longer support our engine on Mac either.

This I think would put a huge dent in games on the Mac platform. I wonder if Apple would change their mind?

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#677

Post by fermienrico »

downvoteme1 wrote: post #521
fermienrico wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am fine with this for most things except my phone. I trust Apple more than any party in the world. Even the government. Fortnight devs, Epic, whatever are not even on the same radar. They'll sell your privacy in milliseconds if they can get 2.5 cents for it. I would never ever own an open source phone. Not because the operating system is open source (probably good that it has eyes on it) but there is no way to cont…

Not related to the poster but it is surprising that HN is becoming like Reddit where non conformist opinions are downvoted extensively.

I am glad I can express my opinions on HN and I am ok with downvotes as far as people don't flag me for disagreeing (but ok to flag if I violate HN rules).

I stand by what I think makes sense, what my conscience tells me and based on the evidence of data, experience and perspective.

Without people challenging the status quo, generating healthy discussion, we would have a massive echo chamber. I don't feel offended by downvotes.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#678

Post by to11mtm »

jerf wrote: post #233
aaomidi wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that "it was in the contract that Epic agreed to" is ridiculous. It wasn't a contract that Epic could've disagreed to. This is the same for end users, but we don't have the power to start a lawsuit against Apple.

The legal term you are looking for is "contract of adhesion": https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/adhesion_contract_%28contrac... However, a lot of the text around those contracts you'll find centers around a powerful entity like Apple adhering the contract to a nearly-powerless entity, like an individual consumer. I'm not up enough on the details of what case law has been created to know what happen to a contract of adh…

> My uninformed, personal guess is that Epic isn't conceptualizing this as a legal fight; I bet they think of this as a PR fight where the lawsuit is part of their PR narrative trying to get Apple to back down on their take. As a pure legal fight this doesn't strike me as a strong hand, but as a part of a larger PR fight... who knows. They may be trying to create a position to negotiate a settlement from.

IDK. The jaded part of me asks whether Tencent pulled some strings here; a US company with Mindshare (Epic) is a better looking actor than the swaths of shovelware publishers that would stand to benefit from the long-term effects of a victory here.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#679

Post by caf »

grishka wrote: post #635
dreamcompiler wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On a device I own... And that's the issue. The overwhelming body of evidence in recent years suggests Apple does not consider the devices they make to be "yours." Rather, their attitude seems to be that those devices forever belong to Apple, and Apple simply allows you to pay for the privilege of using them.

Why didn't they make it a subscription at this point? Pay $100 per month, or your iPhone would lock and demand that you return it to an Apple Store.

It basically is that - most owners replace their iPhones regularly, and if you replace your iPhone with purchase price $P every M months, that's just as good for Apple as you paying P/M per month, with some additional benefits:

The user is locked in to a large minimum spend; the user is responsible for EOL disposal of the device; the users perform self price discrimination, where more wealthy users replace their phone more often so effectively pay a higher monthly rate.

Re: Apple to kill Epic’s accounts on Friday the 28th

#680

Post by nouveaux »

gruez wrote: post #405
kingnothing wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fortnite isn't central to modern life.

A cheap source of entertainment for kids that are locked down because of a pandemic isn't central to modern life?

It's a bit of a stretch. There are plenty of alternatives.
Post reply on HN