there goes the neighborhood
Kickstarter employees vote to unionize
671–680 of 1001 posts
Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize
#672Earlier quoted context omitted.
While I agree if the 10x is making 120 and it moves to 150 that is good for everyone. But what if there is a 10x who actually makes 200. Would you ask them to take a pay cut so everyone is on that same 150? I think people will have a hard time with that. I feel people will always want more money for performing better, or get incentivised to perform at the exact right level of that compensation and not more. I am curi…
Actor’s guilds don’t specify a ceiling to wages, only floors. We could do the same here.
True, is that how people are attempting to form these sorts of unions as well? I honestly don't know what one would look like here. Are there documents from existing Software Engineer unions out there that can be used as a good model? Does the Kickstarter Union already have some form of docs in place, or is that what starts now?
Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize
#673Earlier quoted context omitted.
You say "increase in managerial oversight", but then mention standups. That's about the least onerous oversight possible. I understand not liking standups, but... that's not at the level of excessive management oversight. Excessive management oversight is a whole different level. (And yes, I know, standups can be part of that whole different level. That's the one you specifically mentioned, though. If that's the exce…
So, do you agree that managerial oversight is increasing or not? Of course standups can be helpful and unobtrusive, but they also often degrade into shamefests with the sole purpose of forcing everybody to conjure up reasons why they are not done yet. And of course I agree that they are not the most annoying thing possible. Let's wait a few more years until something like DingTalk ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?…
Managerial oversight is increasing as a general trend? I have no data one way or the other.
Standups increase managerial oversight compared to not having them? True... as far as it goes. The thing is, management is going to make decisions based on something. Having them make decisions with no data leads to bad outcomes, so they've got to get the data somehow. If you've got a way for them to get the data that's less intrusive to workers' time than standups, I'd like to hear what it is. (Seriously. I've got standups now, and if you've got a better way, I'm not above copying it.)
Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize
#674Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Uber's male chauvinistic culture and the problems associated with that can be a typical examples of "why tech needs to unionize" Why wouldn't the same employees that are setting Uber's culture set the union culture? The union is a collective bargaining unit that acts on behalf of the workers, not the most moral and upstanding workers, or the most progressive workers, or the workers that represent you personally.
> Why wouldn't the same employees that are setting Uber's culture set the union culture? Company culture comes from the top.
In a union or a cooperative, the members actually have an opportunity to decide who gets to be at the top.
Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize
#675Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also, frankly, fsk free snacks. Pay me the money you were going to spend on snacks, and I'll choose whether to spend it on snacks or not. And since the money spent on free snacks was probably about $20/week, it won't be a significant consideration in any of my decisions. Bus service might be more significant in some places, but every place I've ever lived had that subsidized by the government, and long commutes are a…
They are buying more than the snacks. They are buying you time, since you never need to make office grocery runs to stock your desk. Might not be a huge deal, but elimination of chores really is a perk.
Or you could just buy snacks at the same time as all your other grocery shopping? I guess if you literally never go to the grocery store it's a perk, but otherwise it's questionable at best.
Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize
#676Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also, frankly, fsk free snacks. Pay me the money you were going to spend on snacks, and I'll choose whether to spend it on snacks or not. And since the money spent on free snacks was probably about $20/week, it won't be a significant consideration in any of my decisions. Bus service might be more significant in some places, but every place I've ever lived had that subsidized by the government, and long commutes are a…
They are buying more than the snacks. They are buying you time, since you never need to make office grocery runs to stock your desk. Might not be a huge deal, but elimination of chores really is a perk.
I can have them delivered for very little premium. If my co-workers and I pool our orders we can reduce the impact of those deliveries (or rotating pickup), and have more choice about what snacks we get.
Donut and coffee clubs (and similar) in offices have worked this way forever.
Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize
#677Earlier quoted context omitted.
Collective bargaining does not necessarily include collective negotiation of wages.
Can you point to an example of a large US union that doesn't collectively bargain wage scales?
The Screen Actors Guild, and the players unions for most professional sports (NFL, NBA, MLB, etc). They recognize that their members have different levels of talent, and allow the stars to make more, while still ensuring basic rights for every member.
Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize
#678Coming from a public accounting background, I’ve seen a variety of businesses. Somewhat obviously, I’ve seen some be successful with unions and others be successful without, which makes sense, as unions are neither inherently good nor bad. They are a tool which can change the power dynamic and incentive structure of workers and employers throughout an organization, but there is nothing inherent about having a union t…
> Generally speaking for well run, ethical companies, whose management actively try to do the right thing, unions add unnecessary redundancy and bureaucracy. The only type of "well run, ethical companies" where unions are redundant are worker-owned cooperatives . Otherwise, an employer, regardless of how ethical they are, can never replicate the most critical aspect of unions: collective bargaining rights . Sure, an…
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Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize
#679Earlier quoted context omitted.
The two ideas are not incompatible. You can set a company-wide curve for promotions.
What about outside of promotions? I’m not going to get promoted every year and I certainly don’t want to only be able to get a sizable increase tied with promotions. Although I do agree they are not fundamentally incompatible. You can have a large number of hands within a job level and have the ability to jump bands for example. But then this somewhat goes against the typical union (at least in the US) thinking where…
If a senior engineer can outperform another dramatically, he will get promoted to principal sooner than the other and is probably getting higher bonuses, even if their base wage is currently the same.
If a "10x" senior engineer moves to another company he will probably seek a job as principal engineer and get a higher base wage than older employees that have less technical aptitude than him.
Negotiated salary bands do not go against meritocracy.
Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize
#680Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why thankfully? Don't workers' rights mean they ought to make their own choices about joining a union or not?
Comments like the above fascinate me. The emotional appeal of "choice" seems to have no end. You can employ it to fight unions, health care, public schools anything you want. Similarly if you can successfully attach "right" (as in "a right") to your rhetoric you can draw out pride, anger, indignation, all sorts of powerful emotions. I recently learned that Frank Luntz ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Luntz ) is…
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