Terminating Service for 8Chan • Hacker News Board

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#671

Post by toyg » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 9:46 AM UTC

dangxiaopin wrote: post #657

q3k wrote: post #646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook implemented automation to ban any reposts of the NZ footage. Facebook routinely bans extremists groups. 8ch actively caters to white supremacists, by letting /pol/ be the second largest board there and not be actively moderated to combat hate speech. 8ch administrators did nothing to prevent hate speech from becoming a large chunk of their discourse. As such, people were looking towards 8ch's providers to do…

Oh so therefore, 8chan was deplatformed not in connection with this manifesto then, but due to their past record of not banning bad speech prior to this crime?

They are not exclusive - this was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#672

Post by drenvuk » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 9:50 AM UTC

ticktocktack wrote: post #652

rlonn wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but how can anyone say "what kind" of free speech...? Don't you see that labeling or discriminating between "free speech of type A, allowed" and "free speech of type B, disallowed" defeats the whole notion of "free"? Somehow people tend to think that their own discrimination isn't, while others is.

It is my understanding that, currently, the following speech is of "type B, disallowed" in the US: * Shouting fire in a crowded theatre * False advertisement * Medical or legal advice (allowed, heavily regulated by the Government) * Advocacy of force or criminal activity And I assume, many others that I do not know of. Unless you are arguing that there is no such thing as free speech in the US, then it must be that y…

The shouting fire in a crowded theater example for precedent was overturned. Stop using it.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#673

Post by y4mi » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 9:51 AM UTC

cryptica wrote: post #655

It's concerning that Cloudflare is monetizing on these disasters by publishing this article and promoting it on HN; in a way, they're using these crimes as an opportunity to improve their brand image. Cloudflare should have dealt with this privately; this matter is between Cloudflare and 8chan - They were always able to choose who they want and don't want to do business with. They were very happy to take the money wh…

Doing it privately just means giving them the opportunity to spin the story in a bad light.

Not a good idea with today's outage society

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#674

Post by adrianN » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 9:54 AM UTC

yardie wrote: post #648

zimpenfish wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They choose not to apply this approach to white supremacy. "[...] the measures taken against ISIS were so extreme that, if applied to white supremacy, there would certainly be backlash, because algorithms would obviously flag content that has been tweeted by prominent Republicans—or, at the very least, their supporters." https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/a3xgq5/why-wont-twitter-t...

Honestly, they should have done exactly that. Flag their content and ban them. Then go to the capitol. And when some politician asks, "why was I banned?" Tell them honestly, your statements were determined to be extremist by the same algorithm that bans Al Qaeda and ISIS from posting. Then sit back and watch the real fireworks go off. Just because they have a political title does not mean we have to respect anything…

I don't think it is a good idea to replace political discourse with algorithms. You can't just throw up your hands and blame the algorithm when somebody complains to you.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#675

Post by nopcode » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 9:57 AM UTC

IanCal wrote: post #665

CM30 wrote: post #656

I don't like 8chan as a website, but I'm still not a fan of this move. Feels like no one online wants to just provide a 'dumb pipe', and always want to act like a pseudo publisher trying to dictate what's allowed and what isn't. Imagine if real life utilities did this. If because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply, or the electricity company refused to provid…

> If because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply, or the electricity company refused to provide electricity, or your phone provider cut off service or what not. I think it's key that in this case cloudflare are actively between you and 8chan. The phone provider is the most reasonable comparison, were you able to switch provider. I wouldn't be hugely shocked if…

What’s wrong with hosting a manifesto? Getting insight into the state of mind of such an individual seems valuable, no?

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#676

Post by PunchTornado » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 9:58 AM UTC

blacklight86 wrote: post #525

What kind of free speech are we exactly advocating here? The freedom to spread cheap hate, fake news and bigotry against minorities? I'm sorry but moderating such offenses isn't a limitation to free speech. For the same reason why, if you start shouting nig or monkey to black people in a shopping mall, the police is likely to intervene and take you away - and I don't think that any sane person would argue that they'r…

I don't agree. I think people should be free to say their opionions online and offline, no matter how bad those opinions are. I disagree with cloudfare's decision.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#677

Post by raxxorrax » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 9:59 AM UTC

blacklight86 wrote: post #525

What kind of free speech are we exactly advocating here? The freedom to spread cheap hate, fake news and bigotry against minorities? I'm sorry but moderating such offenses isn't a limitation to free speech. For the same reason why, if you start shouting nig or monkey to black people in a shopping mall, the police is likely to intervene and take you away - and I don't think that any sane person would argue that they'r…

We have enough examples of information declared as fake news that turned out to be true in the end that the concept of content classification you are proposing just isn't feasible.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#678

Post by rocqua » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 10:08 AM UTC

cryptica wrote: post #655

It's concerning that Cloudflare is monetizing on these disasters by publishing this article and promoting it on HN; in a way, they're using these crimes as an opportunity to improve their brand image. Cloudflare should have dealt with this privately; this matter is between Cloudflare and 8chan - They were always able to choose who they want and don't want to do business with. They were very happy to take the money wh…

There have been many vocal calls for cloudfare to drop 8chan. This is not a move to get publicity, but cloudfare giving in to public pressure.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#679

Post by folbec » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 10:12 AM UTC

CM30 wrote: post #656

I don't like 8chan as a website, but I'm still not a fan of this move. Feels like no one online wants to just provide a 'dumb pipe', and always want to act like a pseudo publisher trying to dictate what's allowed and what isn't. Imagine if real life utilities did this. If because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply, or the electricity company refused to provid…

As a private company, as long as they are not a monopoly or a quasi monopoly(), they can do what they want, no restriction.

() My personnal definition is a minimum of 4-6 participant in any market with at least 5%-10% share each (Exemple : France has some of the lowest mobile telephony fares in the world, because there are 4 "biggish" providers (one is over 50%), and they are often trying to merge "to regain pricing power", luckilly they have so far failed. 3 can somewhat manage a cartel, 4 seems to be much harder.).

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#680

Post by jarfil » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 10:14 AM UTC

CM30 wrote: post #656

I don't like 8chan as a website, but I'm still not a fan of this move. Feels like no one online wants to just provide a 'dumb pipe', and always want to act like a pseudo publisher trying to dictate what's allowed and what isn't. Imagine if real life utilities did this. If because someone used your property for offensive purposes, the water company cut off the water supply, or the electricity company refused to provid…

> real life utilities

Online services are not utilities, it's not like an ISP without competition in their area was to refuse them service. There are plenty of alternatives to CloudFlare, they're just usually not as cheap or easy to use.