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YouTube bans content “showing users how to bypass secure computer systems”

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Re: YouTube bans content “showing users how to bypass secure computer systems”

#671
post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This works in a non monopolized system. If you live in a large city with many different stores, and you get banned for one of them for wearing a blue shirt, that doesn't matter too much. If you live in a remote city with one wallmart and no other stores, and wallmart bans you, that's a problem. Yes, there are alternatives, but 97% of the market is definitely a monopoly.

The difference between your example and the YouTube case is in how accessible are the alternatives. If the only store close to you bans you, then it can be somewhere between a major inconvenience and practically impossible to go to an alternative. On the other hand, replacing YouTube as a hosting platform isn't too hard (I think? I don't actually have much experience with this but there are alternatives). Of course t…

It's very easy to host a video elsewhere than YouTube.

It's very easy to view a video elsewhere than YouTube.

It's difficult to convince other people to view a video elsewhere than YouTube. You'd have to be on YouTube to begin with to reach them. Sure, there are Facebook and Twitter. But if you want to get off those as well (and I do)… good luck.

Re: YouTube bans content “showing users how to bypass secure computer systems”

#672
post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This works in a non monopolized system. If you live in a large city with many different stores, and you get banned for one of them for wearing a blue shirt, that doesn't matter too much. If you live in a remote city with one wallmart and no other stores, and wallmart bans you, that's a problem. Yes, there are alternatives, but 97% of the market is definitely a monopoly.

The difference between your example and the YouTube case is in how accessible are the alternatives. If the only store close to you bans you, then it can be somewhere between a major inconvenience and practically impossible to go to an alternative. On the other hand, replacing YouTube as a hosting platform isn't too hard (I think? I don't actually have much experience with this but there are alternatives). Of course t…

Youtube is not a chat app, where you have 10 alternatives (whatsapp, viber, wechat, fb, telegram, signal,...), but it's the site where most users search for videos, and if eg. wallmart had such a monopoly as youtube does, if they decide not to sell your products, you're basically fuked.

Re: YouTube bans content “showing users how to bypass secure computer systems”

#673
post #645
post #117

Emperor G built a beautiful walled city, inviting everyone in, encouraging them to paint their houses whatever color they like. A year later, Big G banned blue houses. If you didn't like the rules, you were more than welcome to build your house outside the city and paint it whatever color you like. Only most people don't leave - blue is just one color and they weren't very interested in it anyway. Besides, the city i…

I guess the lesson is "don't build your house in someone else's land".

A lesson that's impossible to follow when all the land is already owned, unless everyone gets the ability to create a full fledged ISP in their basement.

Re: YouTube bans content “showing users how to bypass secure computer systems”

#674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because Google is rich, they are Better. The teeming masses of the unwashed must be yolked by their betters. Left to their own devices, the public would destroy themselves and it is the responsibility of Google and other gigacorps to create culture in order to preserve civilization (probably an unpopular opinion, but...) sounds like neoliberalism

Really? It is almost the textbook definition of Conservatism. Not like 'Republicans are conservative', but the political science sort of Conservatism that ruled the world for centuries, the ideology that supports monarchies, dictatorships, theocracies, etc. The belief that the rights of the state (or church or similar) are primary, that some people are 'special' in a way that destines them to lead while the majority…

well, neoliberalism is a weird thing because it means different things to different people, but wikipedia puts it thusly[1]:

> economic liberalization policies such as privatization, austerity, deregulation, free trade and reductions in government spending in order to increase the role of the private sector in the economy and society

basically how “gigacorps” rule society and public needs to be lead by private institution because they can’t rule themselves fits very much (in my opinion) with neoliberal thinking... and in more modern times neoliberal thinking very much has an anti-democratic and more capital-centered (or you could say elitist) orientation...

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism

[edit] just to be clear, what i mean to say is that neoliberalism shouldn’t be confused with classical liberalism even if they have similar origins, with neoliberalism being more closer to the conservative ideal economically (not socially per se)

Re: YouTube bans content “showing users how to bypass secure computer systems”

#675
post #117

Emperor G built a beautiful walled city, inviting everyone in, encouraging them to paint their houses whatever color they like. A year later, Big G banned blue houses. If you didn't like the rules, you were more than welcome to build your house outside the city and paint it whatever color you like. Only most people don't leave - blue is just one color and they weren't very interested in it anyway. Besides, the city i…

> In theory you are correct. In practice, if 97% of society exclusvely uses said aggregator/community to find videos - 97% of your potential audience will never know the video exists - is that not still censorship?

Reminds me of the retort to libertarian/anti-big-government goals: "Lots of things become a government"

Re: YouTube bans content “showing users how to bypass secure computer systems”

#676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can use other search engines, but the only one Mr. G tells you about is their own, and it consistently features YouTube above other sites. If this kind of behavior from a market leader isn't a textbook anti-trust concern I don't know what is. It's remarkably similar to Microsoft featuring and promoting its own browser at the expense of others. The level of bundling and integration that they were attempting betwee…

Look up "search engine" on google and you find link to alternatives to google, and not google (of course you need to know what a search engine is and that it exists)

Even "alternatives to google" gives you a card with "Top 12 Search Engine Alternatives To Google"

Re: YouTube bans content “showing users how to bypass secure computer systems”

#677
post #664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In your mind, you can’t comment on something unless you’re personally involved in it? Well, as a German, it's just another instance of Americans who don't know 5% of what is going on here, using simplifications so gross they might as well be completely fabricated memes, to sidestep actually making a solid argument. I'm fine with it, I'm not going to fight that particular windmill. But it's really astonishing how a…

> Well, as a German, it's just another instance of Americans who don't know 5% of what is going on here Go on then, what exactly "is happening in Germany"? I suppose this is where you reference the "immigrant hordes" and so on, and the need to "keep Germany for Germans"? I am broadly familiar with German domestic politics. After all, they are EU politics, which are world politics. Germany is easily within the top 10…

> Go on then, what exactly "is happening in Germany"?

I actually elaborated on that before I made the comment you chose to respond to.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20350223

> Germany is easily within the top 10 most influential countries on the world stage.

But that doesn't mean, say, banning swastikas was a decision that came easy or without deep deliberation and discussion. It also doesn't mean we're not riddled with people seeking to control language in all sorts of ways, or that just censoring stuff we "don't consider valuable" is automatically a good idea.

> Oh, "we as individuals need to decide" on whether or not libel or aggression "have value" as constitutionally protected speech?

No, I simply said the way you phrased it, it's an euphemism at best. Individuals make decisions. If you want to be able to say "we as a society" as a shorthand, meaning the people you agree with, minus the people you think you can simply declare unpersons, then you need to be actually able to point to a process where said society had that serious discussion.

> Based on your argument upthread, I suppose you think it should be put up to a vote then?

Why are you shifting the burden to me? You talk about "we as society", so what do you think how would that go? Just doing it? I mentioned it wasn't done nilly-willy in Germany for the swastika etc., you could look into that for a start.

> Even America has decided, in principle, that certain kinds of speech are not protected.

You initially said this:

> The US is one of the few countries that believes in a radical, unlimited right to free speech. Most other countries, it is not tolerated, and this has not lead to a slippery slope.

How you just shift from Alex Jones to Nazis is also noted, but not accepted. To just say "certain kinds of speech" is not good enough, and if you start like that, you can just expand nilly willy. I even already said Germany is better for having banned Nazis -- but the way it's going in America, where people who act like Nazis, want to see people lose their jobs at a drop of a hat for example, I wouldn't buy "let's ban certain kinds of speech" combined with the double think of "oh, it's just a private platform, we're not banning anything". If you want to talk Nazis and don't even see how that shit has red flags plastered all over it, I just don't know how to help sorry.

If you want to make something illegal, lobby to make it illegal. It's not as if in Germany you can do the things you cited in real life, just not on the internet. That's the elephant on the couch in all this. It's just technocrats using somewhat agreeable examples to get their foot in the door to circumvent all that pesky supreme court stuff, and that's closer to the Nazis than Alex Jones will ever be, as foul as he is.

Re: YouTube bans content “showing users how to bypass secure computer systems”

#678
post #648
post #117

Emperor G built a beautiful walled city, inviting everyone in, encouraging them to paint their houses whatever color they like. A year later, Big G banned blue houses. If you didn't like the rules, you were more than welcome to build your house outside the city and paint it whatever color you like. Only most people don't leave - blue is just one color and they weren't very interested in it anyway. Besides, the city i…

> In theory you are correct. In practice, if 97% of society exclusvely uses said aggregator/community to find videos - 97% of your potential audience will never know the video exists - is that not still censorship? I mean... no? I think it's useful to have a separate concept for actual censorship (government-mandated), and just "someone built a really great way to connect to a bunch of users, that didn't exist 20 yea…

Government-mandated or capitalism-mandated? What's the meaningful difference?

Well, maybe, historically, many governments have proven time and time again a meaningful capability to not simply turn Evil for many decades, centuries even. For corporations it seems utterly inevitable; they either grow and become evil, or they don't grow and die. Which happens over the span of one or two decades at the most.

Clearly, we should prefer government censorship, if anything. ...

Re: YouTube bans content “showing users how to bypass secure computer systems”

#679
post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good example of what people do in real life when confronted with change they want vs repercussions. Compounded by the fact that it was posted by username 'gambiting'.

I'm always curious what people think my username means. I thought of it when I was only starting to learn English at around age 10, and my young brain thought it would be amazing to combine "game" and "biting" (as in, eating games, since I loved playing them). I only discovered the word gambit much later.

this is way off topic, but what the heck. i read your name as doing a gambit, playing a gambit, or something along those lines.

risking your google account by making a report, as you observed, is a gambit :-)

Re: YouTube bans content “showing users how to bypass secure computer systems”

#680
post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In theory you are correct. In practice, if 97% of society exclusvely uses said aggregator/community to find videos - 97% of your potential audience will never know the video exists - is that not still censorship? I mean... no? I think it's useful to have a separate concept for actual censorship (government-mandated), and just "someone built a really great way to connect to a bunch of users, that didn't exist 20 yea…

This is a good point. I've been hearing "deplatforming" as the word for what's happening and that seems more accurate than censoring. In part because if we call this censoring and then later the government actually does strictly ban this content - what do we call that?

I mean, corporations have the worst track record. A great number of governments managed to stay non-evil for centuries, even the ones that dipped their toes in censorship.

Honestly if it were my government (the Dutch one, which is okay, but also definitely not perfect) versus any random corporation, even one that has so far only displayed good and well-intentioned behaviour, benevolent even. Remember Google in the early 2000s? Yeah.

To turn from something so good, such a positive outlook on the future, idealism, etc, in less than two decades into the this global market dominating, employee mistreating, faceless, evil .. Moloch thing.

This can of course also happen to governments, but if you look at history, it's the exception. Whereas with capitalism and corporations, it seems to be the fucking rule. You just have to wait which ones grow big enough to just go completely predator on humankind.

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