SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships • Hacker News Board

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#671

Post by selimthegrim » Fri, May 17, 2019, 4:50 AM UTC

rhegart wrote: post #131

Equality of opportunity over outcome for me. Now Asians will be discriminated against secretly. My family sacrificing vacations and eating out for 12 years (literally ate out 5x max) to afford to live in a good school district shouldn’t penalize us. My dad commuted 4 hours daily instead of moving...I’m getting pushed further and further to the right.

Do I necessarily agree with this score? No. But you should read Rothstein's book "The Color of Law" and the Supreme Court decision Milliken v. Bradley and think about how these "good school districts" came about

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#672

Post by wolco » Fri, May 17, 2019, 4:53 AM UTC

manfredo wrote: post #523

spamizbad wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And for private universities it's a big blow to the institution's reputations for all but the most objectionable speakers. Numerous private universities (Christian schools in particular) enforce strict student code of conduct rules that severely limit the student body's freedom of expression as to way to enforce religious or secular compliance. And it doesn't hurt their reputation but instead is an integral compone…

> Numerous private universities (Christian schools in particular) enforce strict student code of conduct rules that severely limit the student body's freedom of expression as to way to enforce religious or secular compliance. And it doesn't hurt their reputation but instead is an integral component of the school's identity. Perhaps you're coming from a different cultural context than, but in my circles such universit…

Sadly the people who mock students from private religious schools are also mocking students from historic black colleges or those who went to comminity college.

Next time you hear about this speak up and change the conversation.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#673

Post by selimthegrim » Fri, May 17, 2019, 4:53 AM UTC

bloaf wrote: post #620

rayiner wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should the College Board not recognize that kids in fact have unequal opportunities for reasons totally outside their control?

The crime rate in a neighborhood is actually something kids can control (i.e. they can commit crimes to boost their scores).

The anti-gentrification tactic extended to SATs! I like it!

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#674

Post by kissickas » Fri, May 17, 2019, 4:54 AM UTC

intended wrote: post #605

grawprog wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How? I chose to learn the things i learned outside of school and to an extent the things i chose to learn in both high school and university. I didn't have to learn those things. I could have spent my time watching tv or doing other things. I know the things i know because i spent time and effort learning them.

And how would such a test not work out well for you? You would still score well, and the fact that you have extra work will still hold in good stead. Let me turn this question that puts your self interest first. You’ve got two people who you can hire for your team. I turns out one guy got a lower sat score than the other. The lower scorer is someone from the projects where people don’t go to college. He still managed…

Have we forgotten the purpose of universities? Groups of students once gathered in a place to attract groups of professors who can teach them thing, and those professors attracted more students, and eventually they got together and built buildings for teaching and housing for students, formed unions, and all the rest.

Why should we be shoving people who aren't capable of being the very best students into this environment? Why give them the expectation that this is what they must do to be successful? What must everyone learn from a university (including those in the Ivy League and their peers) that we expect them to all need to go, as a fundamental right, regardless of the fact that they will be displacing students who are quantifiably better-fit for this place?

Who will be the first responders if we make everyone get a four-year degree before they can start their lives?

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#675

Post by dang » Fri, May 17, 2019, 4:55 AM UTC

StreamBright wrote: post #431

Nor Christians neither Jews are a race

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19935097 and marked it off-topic.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#676

Post by rayiner » Fri, May 17, 2019, 4:55 AM UTC

bloaf wrote: post #616

rayiner wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point is to devalue those efforts. I thought OP wanted “equality of opportunity.” You can’t have equality of opportunity if some kids get a head start because of their parents.

I don't think you can ever eliminate that, short of removing kids from their parents Plato's Republic style. Adding more rules will just create perverse incentives (e.g. parents incentivized to increase crime rate in their neighborhoods to boost their children's scores.)

I agree that you can’t equality of opportunity without the government taking over the task of raising children. But that undermines OP’s premise. If “equality of opportunity” is not an option, then “equality of outcome” should be on the table.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#677

Post by lazyasciiart » Fri, May 17, 2019, 4:55 AM UTC

lopmotr wrote: post #642

kornsh3ll wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> eg, the classic hook-nose propaganda - clearly a racial stereotype Please, do not repeat this filth. It is anti-Semitic nonsense that there is are “Jewish racial characteristics”. Jews come in every shape and skin tone. I know a very nice black man who is an African Immigrant and he is Jewish. There is no Jewish race - Judaism is only a religion.

Converts and outliers are of course are excluded, but for people with a long Jewish ancestry, there are clusterings of genetic markers that uniquely identify them as distinct from non-Jews. There are different groups of Jews too. Judaism is well accepted as being both a race and a religion. Of course it has fuzzy borders with people who don't believe the religion but are genetically Jewish and vise versa, but so does…

How long is "a long Jewish ancestry"? Hundreds of years? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Africa

Judaism is not 'well accepted' as being a race, and it is quite dismissive for you to assume that other commenters have taken up their positions 'in advance' rather than having spent time on the topic before this conversation that led them to their position.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#678

Post by achillesheels » Fri, May 17, 2019, 4:56 AM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #367

grawprog wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did pretty well on the standardized tests in high school. If this had existed, i likely would have scored higher than average on adversity. I would be pissed to find out my score was altered in any way due to factors outside my control. If I do well on something, i want it to be from my own merits, whatever my current situation. I don't want to be pandered to because i grew up poor in a shitty neighbourhood. Everyt…

> because of my own intelligence and skill... Fuck anyone giving me points for things i didn't work for or that are outside my control... Your "intelligence" is definitely one of those things completely outside your control. What you've done with it is at least partially under your control, but you probably weren't born with any sort of brain disorder, for example. EDIT: adding on things like your visual appearance -…

Intelligence can be developed. I think it’s called “thinking”. Unless you disagree and have have a more thorough model of the mind as an uncontrollable and spontaneous assembly of synaptic connections in your skull?

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#679

Post by dashundchen » Fri, May 17, 2019, 4:57 AM UTC

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #634

aj7 wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. People with brains should be more united.

>Yeah. People with brains should be more united. While i don’t disagree on its face. That statement usually means “people should just be on my side”. As written above; the Overton window has been moving left, and things like not prosecuting female gential mutilation in the US, straight socialism, not settling for anything less than full gun bans, open borders - things that would have got you locked up 50 years ago ar…

> not prosecuting female gential mutilation in the US, straight socialism, not settling for anything less than full gun bans, open borders

Please don't lie. There is no mainstream Congress person or presidential candidate protecting FGM, advocating for full socialism or complete open borders. Just because you disagree with them doesn't make your projections true.

Re: SAT to Add ‘Adversity Score’ That Rates Students’ Hardships

#680

Post by freeone3000 » Fri, May 17, 2019, 4:58 AM UTC

cycrutchfield wrote: post #223

droithomme wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The student who spends time preparing for a test, reviewing the material, studying previous tests, drilling with practice tests, actually has more scholastic aptitude than the students who do not do this because these are actual research and preparation skills that are valuable to success in mastering college material.

The only skill you gain while cramming for the SAT is how to cram for tests like the SAT. The gameability of the SAT is not an indication of general scholastic aptitude

If general scholastic aptitude measured something other than how to study for tests and write essays, then you might be onto something, except that college is simply more of the same.