Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

671–680 of 778 posts

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#671

Post by pbreit »

kmlx wrote: post #524
pbreit wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First US car company in 60 years, electric at that. Best crash test ratings. Highest owner satisfaction. First US-owned factory in China. Built in about 6 months. Ability and willingness to use OTA updates. Willingness and ability to put auto-pilot on the road for consumers. Ridiculous performance. Better chip than Nvidia. Top 2 auto battery supplier. Best selling lux car in US (ICE or EV). Dramatically better batter…

wow. here we go: > Best crash test ratings. partly false. there are 30 cars in the same category. kias, hyundays you name it. > Highest owner satisfaction. partly false. only the model 3 got it. model s was dropped due to how crappy it is. > First US-owned factory in China. Built in about 6 months. false. it’s not built. and there are so many other corps out there that own china factories it’s not even funny. > Willi…

I could go down your list and write false as well. To take the first one as an example of how you are wrong.

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=NHTSA-2017-0037-0037

Model 3 not only the very best results, but by a wider margin.

And the last. Tesla absolutely sells a $35k Model 3: https://www.tesla.com/blog/update-our-vehicle-lineup

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#672

Post by hef19898 »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #566
hef19898 wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still comes down to a race between Tesla figuring out the complete automotive supply chain and competitors figuring out EVs. Tesla had, and I would assume still has, production hell. Now it's delivery hell. Both are solved, controlled and executed constantly by other car companies (VW has an exception with the new Golf 8 that proves the rule). The competition is still struggling to solve EVs, some like Jaguar and…

> Both are solved, controlled and executed constantly by other car companies. Executed for ICE cars and their components. They don't have the supply chains for batteries, inverters, or electric motors.

True. Couple of things on that.

Yes, the existing supply chain is not geared towards EVs (which is serious problem in terms of chanel masters and such). Still the knowledge and tools and processes and people are there. Combine that with the fact that an EV is actually less complex an ICE powered car incumbents, I assume, should be able to switch easily (biggest issues being internal struggles keeping them from executing as a lot of powerful people in these companies have to loose a lot). Still, the basis is there as is the purchasing power and the aftermarket activities and such.

As far as Tesla is concerned, they have production hell and delivery hell. On top of that I suspect they have a kind of procurement hell as well with Panasonic as one the most important suppliers. Together that results in Supply Chain hell. So while Tesla's SC is geared towards EVs im not sure on the execution side.

But this is just my outside point of view.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#673

Post by Klathmon »

dmix wrote: post #670
Klathmon wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had on multiple occasions gone into a dealership and had them tell me that they have the car i'm asking about, but that I don't want that car, and that I want this other car instead. I went into nissan to look at the Juke a while back, the asshole wouldn't even let me look at it until I literally started leaving. He just kept pressing the Rogue saying that I'd like it a lot more... Then when he finally took me t…

This is why online car shopping needs to be a thing. I experienced the exact same thing. I'm a highly informed customer who knew every car I wanted to see but almost every sales guy ignored that fact, besides at a Honda location. Which isn't surprising that I ended up with a Honda. I would have bought it online if I could and it's very possible I wouldn't have ended up with a Honda, that has to play a role in each co…

Same here, I ended up going into an Audi dealer after the Bolt fiasco, and it was a night and day difference. When I asked a question about a car, they answered it happily! When I wanted to look at a car, they took me to a few. When I wanted to test drive one, they pulled up their inventory of cars and asked what one I want to test drive.

No "you don't want that", no "we are trying to keep the miles down on that one", no condescending talk about how some other car is probably more in my range.

And unsurprisingly I ended up getting an Audi!

It's one of the big reasons why I think the whole "online sales" thing is perfect with Tesla. They have showrooms in many places where those who want to look at and ask questions about the cars can go, and when you actually want to buy, you buy it like something off amazon, and it gets delivered when ready.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#675

Post by natch »

tim333 wrote: post #521
natch wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The claims sound bold because he never made them. The poster is misquoting. Elon said that Tesla would have a version of the software that could do full self driving by the end of this year. Then he very clearly spelled out that it would not be available to consumers until regulators approve it at some later date (possibly years).

I tried googling and found "Elon Musk promises fully autonomous, coast-to-coast Tesla road trip in the next 7 months" in Feb 2018, not this year. Obv didn't happen. https://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/news/2018/02/08/tesla-fu...

He also stated that advanced summon would be rolled out last week, but then it didn’t happen.

Why? We (the general public) don’t know exactly but rumors are that some issues were uncovered and Tesla decided to slow down the rollout of this feature until the issues are fixed.

That’s good that they slowed down the rollout. I’d rather wait for a safer, better version of the feature than get a dangerous version, if that’s part of the issue.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this picture except for people interpreting forward-looking statements as 100% locked-in promises. They are not promises.

In technology, people predict stuff all the time and sometimes the predictions come true on time; other times they take longer. Perfectly normal stuff but outsiders don’t always get this. Elon has correctly predicted plenty of stuff that has come to pass. Not always on time, but it is a given that schedules can slip in technology.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#676

Post by alexhutcheson »

dmix wrote: post #670
Klathmon wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had on multiple occasions gone into a dealership and had them tell me that they have the car i'm asking about, but that I don't want that car, and that I want this other car instead. I went into nissan to look at the Juke a while back, the asshole wouldn't even let me look at it until I literally started leaving. He just kept pressing the Rogue saying that I'd like it a lot more... Then when he finally took me t…

This is why online car shopping needs to be a thing. I experienced the exact same thing. I'm a highly informed customer who knew every car I wanted to see but almost every sales guy ignored that fact, besides at a Honda location. Which isn't surprising that I ended up with a Honda. I would have bought it online if I could and it's very possible I wouldn't have ended up with a Honda, that has to play a role in each co…

The Costco Auto Program is worth checking out: https://www.costcoauto.com

You can pick the car and get pre-negotiated pricing online. You still have to go to the dealer to actually pick it up, but you don't need to be "sold to", negotiate the price, etc. The people I know who have used it have gotten excellent prices, but it's always worth comparing to the estimates from Consumer Reports or other sources.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#677

Post by dmix »

alexhutcheson wrote: post #676
dmix wrote: post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why online car shopping needs to be a thing. I experienced the exact same thing. I'm a highly informed customer who knew every car I wanted to see but almost every sales guy ignored that fact, besides at a Honda location. Which isn't surprising that I ended up with a Honda. I would have bought it online if I could and it's very possible I wouldn't have ended up with a Honda, that has to play a role in each co…

The Costco Auto Program is worth checking out: https://www.costcoauto.com You can pick the car and get pre-negotiated pricing online. You still have to go to the dealer to actually pick it up, but you don't need to be "sold to", negotiate the price, etc. The people I know who have used it have gotten excellent prices, but it's always worth comparing to the estimates from Consumer Reports or other sources.

Good to know.

I used https://www.unhaggle.com to find out the MRSP of the car and saved about $2k from the list price, basically the lowest price the dealer could offer. It's basically a lead-gen system for dealerships which I discovered after my experience mentioned above. The dealer was very welcoming with us using it and said it was getting more common.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#678

Post by hef19898 »

pryelluw wrote: post #641
bryanlarsen wrote: post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Advantage competition: scaling production and delivery, economies of scale Really? Evidence suggests otherwise. Hyundai Kona Electric: huge backorders, yet they only made 2000 of them in February. https://insideevs.com/news/343420/hyundai-kona-electric-prod... Audi eTron: 2019 production targets lowered 20% to 45K/year. https://www.electrive.com/2019/04/23/audi-revises-production... Jaguar seems to be doing OK with…

I'd say in general terms including conventional vehicles and not only EVs.

That's what I meant.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#679

Post by treis »

moduspol wrote: post #607
treis wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're wrong about Tesla having an advantage in the non-electric parts of the car. The legacy car makers are way way better at actually building cars at a profit. If a big touchscreen was a way to do that they have the chops to pull it off (or at least one of the suppliers does). There is/was a race between Tesla getting good at traditional car manufacturing and the legacy car makers coming up with their own…

Nokia was better at building phones at a profit than all its competitors until Apple entered the market. Apple changed the market for what consumers expected from phones, which Nokia failed to adapt to, and the rest is history. Traditional automakers are, indeed, much better at profitably making what consumers wanted in 2012. It's not clear how well they'll react as expectations change, driven in large part by what T…

It only took Apple a couple years to unseat Nokia as the top phone seller. Tesla, today, still sells less than 10% of the volume of the top car makers and still struggles to be cash flow positive.

Which goes back to the initial point about there being a race on and Tesla isn't winning it. Tesla has to increase their manufacturing by an order of magnitude before the other car companies make competitive EVs. We already are seeing legacy car makers introducing EVs so the race is all but over. Tesla will survive as a niche luxury brand along the lines of a BMW, but they're not going mainstream.

Re: Tesla Posts Big Quarterly Loss as Its Electric-Car Sales Lag

#680

Post by SEJeff »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #660
hef19898 wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still comes down to a race between Tesla figuring out the complete automotive supply chain and competitors figuring out EVs. Tesla had, and I would assume still has, production hell. Now it's delivery hell. Both are solved, controlled and executed constantly by other car companies (VW has an exception with the new Golf 8 that proves the rule). The competition is still struggling to solve EVs, some like Jaguar and…

> Advantage competition: scaling production and delivery, economies of scale And service, and spares. This is where Tesla is really struggling. Especially spare parts.

That said, their "Tesla Ranger" program where the mechanic comes to you is the future. It is easily one of the coolest things Tesla does and is a sensible way to scale out their service centers which are (admittedly) overbooked.
Post reply on HN