Amazon Go • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Go

#671

Post by odbol_ » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 6:56 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #641

odbol_ wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about those people go teach their local kids about science? Or volunteer to take care of the homeless or the elderly? That seems like it would benefit society much more than talking to a few bored people in a checkout line.

Except they won't, because nobody will pay for that. It's easy to find an alternative occupation - it's much more difficult to propose one that's reachable when you consider the starting point and economic reality (living costs money; retraining costs money; people low on the ladder usually don't have cash to burn).

Well, right now the U.S. has spent about $4 TRILLION on bombing countries in the Middle East... Maybe we could use some of that money for a better purpose.

The world has enough money to do these things, it's just a question of priorities and replacing greed with compassion.

Re: Amazon Go

#672

Post by kenjackson » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 6:56 PM UTC

flaviojuvenal wrote: post #476

crazypyro wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trying to save jobs that are no longer the most efficient way of solving a problem is not the way to promote the value of humanity, in my opinion. People want groceries as cheap and fast as possible. They don't go to the grocery store for social interaction and forcing the majority of people to pay extra for something that only the minority get value out of is not a competitive strategy. If humanity were to take your…

> They don't go to the grocery store for social interaction Not true for my grandmother and many other elderly people. Maybe it's loneliness. But maybe it's a generation thing, not sure. We need to question if it's best to not interact with people who sell us stuff.

If there's a large enough market for it, then someone will continue to build it.

People said the same thing about DVD stores -- yet the numbers didn't back it up. People stopped going.

Re: Amazon Go

#673

Post by Reason077 » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 6:57 PM UTC

kristofferR wrote: post #418

delegate wrote: post #387

Look, I know this might not be a popular view here on HN, but I think this is useless. And bad. I'm not talking about the technology behind it (I think it's an amazing achievement).. I live in Barcelona and I have at least 5 medium-sized supermarkets within 5 minutes walking distance from my home. Plus there are several smaller shops that sell fruits and vegetables. I know all the people who work in these supermarket…

You're looking at it from the wrong perspective. What you, as a customer, value doesn't really matter. The store owners don't introduce cashless checkout in order for the customers to save time, they do it so they can save money. Human cashiers will probably exist in the future too, and if you value it you'll be able to pay extra for it.

What you, as a customer, value doesn't really matter.

If this were true, the shopping experience would be very different for all of us! Stores would look like Soviet-era warehouses, with everything done at the least possible cost.

In reality, customer experience matters a great deal. That's why you see companies like Amazon creating these sorts of innovations.

Re: Amazon Go

#674

Post by nostromo » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 6:57 PM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #602

delegate wrote: post #387

Look, I know this might not be a popular view here on HN, but I think this is useless. And bad. I'm not talking about the technology behind it (I think it's an amazing achievement).. I live in Barcelona and I have at least 5 medium-sized supermarkets within 5 minutes walking distance from my home. Plus there are several smaller shops that sell fruits and vegetables. I know all the people who work in these supermarket…

I live in Barcelona and I have at least 5 medium-sized supermarkets within 5 minutes walking distance from my home. Plus there are several smaller shops that sell fruits and vegetables. I know all the people who work in these supermarkets. The significant bit is that the walk-ability indicated in the 1st sentence enables the community indicated in the last sentence. I know there was one neighborhood in Cincinnati in…

I don't think this has anything to do with cars.

I live in Seattle. Many neighborhoods are very walkable. I can and do walk to grocery stores all the time. No, I don't know the cashiers personally. I also have to wait in long lines quite often.

When I lived in New York, one of the most walkable cities on Earth, it was even worse: long lines and anonymous, interchangeable cashiers.

I grew up in a small town where everyone drove to the grocery store, and that's the only time in my life where people knew their cashiers and genuinely cared about their lives.

Re: Amazon Go

#675

Post by erikpukinskis » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 6:58 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #18

Companies have been discussing "checkout-less" stores since forever, but nobody has been brave enough to do it due to the perceived threat of shoplifting. And while shoplifting is a legitimate threat, are non-shoplifters going to be turned into shoplifters without a checkout? Are normal shoplifters stopped by checkouts? These are the core questions, and until it is tested nobody will know for sure. Target is getting…

I'm surprised people read Amazon Go as shoplifting friendly.

My first thought was: wow, and they made it much harder to shoplift. In a regular store you can just tuck an item in your jacket. With this tech, they know when the item left the shelf, that you were standing there, and that it left the store with you.

Sure, it's hackable. Everything is hackable. But this actually seems like an anti-shoplifting measure to me.

Heck, I could imagine them installing this system in a normally staffed store just to detect shoplifting!

Re: Amazon Go

#676

Post by TeMPOraL » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 6:58 PM UTC

platz wrote: post #508

Ph0X wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point isn't that we save 2 minutes, it's that there's now 10 less job we need. And that may seem as a negative at first, but the idea is that as more and more job get automated, prices should go down until the point where people will not have to work full weeks anymore, or rather, focus on learning and reaching higher education, rather than doing dummy work all day (aka just scanning items non stop for 8 hours).

> prices should go down unlikely - can think of a bunch of reasons why this wouldn't happen. > people will not have to work full weeks anymore, or rather, focus on learning and reaching higher education too idealistic - why aren't the people who "aren't working full weeks" today focusing on learning and reaching higher education? The logic doesn't work for the people already in this target group, today.

> too idealistic - why aren't the people who "aren't working full weeks" today focusing on learning and reaching higher education? The logic doesn't work for the people already in this target group, today.

There are many reasons. "Not working full weeks" doesn't always mean "not busy". Some of the reasons are:

- they're taking care of children / sick parents

- they're themselves sick or disabled (including various psychological conditions that can make you unable to perform effectively as a worker in this economy)

- they don't have a way to find a job that would let them earn more than they get from benefits (going to work in such circumstances is stupidity from economic POV)

- higher education they need costs money they can't get due to reasons listed above

Re: Amazon Go

#677

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 6:59 PM UTC

theodorton wrote: post #654

gamegoblin wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that income inequality is a big problem, and it is a major cause of social discord, but to be fair, quality of life increased significantly across all percentiles since then. e.g. which society is better to live in: (low inequality, less wealth) 10th percentile average wealth: 100 99th percentile average wealth: 1000 (high inequality, more wealth) 10th percentile average wealth: 1000 99th percentile…

You have to consider purchasing power, not how much moneys you have in your wallet. If the majority of people get 10x the money they used to, they're not getting 10x the purchasing power, because everyone needs a higher salary. This is also an oversimplification. You can read more about the phenomenon here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_disease

[deleted]

Re: Amazon Go

#678

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 6:59 PM UTC

theodorton wrote: post #654

gamegoblin wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that income inequality is a big problem, and it is a major cause of social discord, but to be fair, quality of life increased significantly across all percentiles since then. e.g. which society is better to live in: (low inequality, less wealth) 10th percentile average wealth: 100 99th percentile average wealth: 1000 (high inequality, more wealth) 10th percentile average wealth: 1000 99th percentile…

You have to consider purchasing power, not how much moneys you have in your wallet. If the majority of people get 10x the money they used to, they're not getting 10x the purchasing power, because everyone needs a higher salary. This is also an oversimplification. You can read more about the phenomenon here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_disease

[deleted]

Re: Amazon Go

#679

Post by wccrawford » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 6:59 PM UTC

OOPMan wrote: post #581

delegate wrote: post #387

Look, I know this might not be a popular view here on HN, but I think this is useless. And bad. I'm not talking about the technology behind it (I think it's an amazing achievement).. I live in Barcelona and I have at least 5 medium-sized supermarkets within 5 minutes walking distance from my home. Plus there are several smaller shops that sell fruits and vegetables. I know all the people who work in these supermarket…

As someone who has worked behind a checkout till it is not a job I think anyone is dying to do. For you, as the customer, maybe it seems cute and fine as a job but from my time in the job it's basically hours of mindless labour that teaches you little and offers no room for growth. Your opinion on this is actually kind of despicable. You want people to perform robotic menial jobs because you feel like it adds humanit…

I worked a few different jobs in grocery stores, and I agree.

It wasn't a job that had a future for me, and at some point during the last job there, I realized that I needed to find something else or I was doomed to a life of barely having enough money to get by each week.

Luckily, it wasn't that I didn't have skills, just that I wasn't using them for profit. But I'll never forget my time there and how soul-sucking it can be to do the same things over and over with no real interactions with the people I was helping.

Could I have been quirky like the cashiers in the story above? Sure, but that isn't me. And I know a lot of customers would have complained about it, because so many customers love to complain, rather than just enjoy things that are happening around them for what they are.

Re: Amazon Go

#680

Post by pshc » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 6:59 PM UTC

tekklloneer wrote: post #529

subdane wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes sense from a suburban, car-based perspective. From a walking, city-based lens, neighborhoods and social interactions make a lot of sense. It's why coffee shops haven't been made obsolete by vending machines - at least here in New York. Point is, it depends on your perspective.

> It's why coffee shops haven't been made obsolete by vending machines I really don't think that's why. Vending machines can't compete with humans still for freshly produced goods. There have been a few shots across the bow, but producing food that requires adjustment is still beyond the range of our sensors. I can't imagine a robot "dialing in" an espresso machine based on taste like a barista would, at least for an…

But I go to coffee shops for the productive atmosphere. I think baristas (and bartenders and sommeliers) will always have a place even in a post-work world.