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Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

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Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#671

Post by mch82 »

masondixon wrote: post #582
tdkl wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People listen up until the point you prove to them you're not worth listening to. And they decide that based on emotions, which marks them as not being capable of rational discussions.

After losing control of the entire government, there is still this sense of: "I don't need to engage in debate with you". Its just not rationale.

The main lesson learned from Trump's campaign is that "rational" is far less important than "belief" and "story".

Here's what seems irrational from my perspective:

1. Bob votes to elect Mike Pence, who takes the position "Homosexuality is incompatible with military service" [mikepence.com]

2. Dan, who is homosexual and in the military and Facebook friends with Bob since they started hanging out in college, finds out Bob voted for Mike Pence.

3. Dan says to Bob, "Yo man, that's pretty bigoted of you to vote for that guy."

4. Bob says I'm not a bigot.

5. Bob doesn't empathize with Dan or understand that Dan is really just pissed Bob took away his ability to serve the country in the military by electing Mike Pence.

[mikepence.com]: https://web.archive.org/web/20020206052612/http://www.mikepe...

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#672

Post by codingdave »

pjdemers wrote: post #275

Disagreeing with each other's views on the economy, international relations, even the environment is good for the country. We need different points of view on important issues. But using race baiting to gain political power crosses a line that should never be crossed. He should not be helping to legitimize this.

Disagreement is one thing. Outright blindness to issues that could destroy humanity, and that are not in question, such as global warming, are something else entirely. But it is too late to fret over that - what is important now is supporting those people who CAN work with Trump to make better decisions. So whether you like Trump or Thiel or think they are dimwits, we'll get a better result by helping them vs. bitching about things on the internet.

(In two years, this cycle starts all over again. Save your energies for that time.)

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#673

Post by return0 »

rootlocus wrote: post #576
masondixon wrote: post #575

A huge issue today is the lack of calm, reasoned debate. As a Trump supporter I have never been able to properly explain the rationale to a liberal. I believe there is a worthy debate beneath all the political smear, but it is never reached. I believe the reason for this is the liberal media and the incredibly effective Democratic party election machine. The argument stays at the high level of "how could you vote for…

> Thankfully, freedom of speech is such an integral part of the US, that there is not one side trying to control what the other can say, and the other doing the same back. Sure, you and Donald Trump can say whatever you please. Nobody's restricting your freedom of speech. However, what you say betrays who you are. And what Trump said showed he's a liar, misogynist, tech illiterate, arrogant and overall a disgusting h…

> he's a liar,

No doubt. ALL politicians are to some extent.

> misogynist,

because? Misogyny is literally HATRED of women, like, treating them really harsh. I dont think the democrats were convincing at that

> tech illiterate,

He seems to be handling twitter quite great

> arrogant

No doubt about that but sociopathy is a frequent characteristic of leaders

> and overall a disgusting human being

Disgust is visceral aversion, and can be very personal. Not an argument

Are you willing to negotiate any of your positions or are they set in stone? It seems the liberals went full hard-line mode, and ignored half of america.

> People listen up until the point you prove to them you're not worth listening to.

So basically , what the others say is garbage, deplorables, end of conversation. That's the point, swjs broke off the conversation with "you know what i m not arguing with you, you re a deplorable". Thats not how you convince people, you have to try harder.

disclosure: i m not american but watched the war of words from afar.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#674

Post by masondixon »

59nadir wrote: post #656
masondixon wrote: post #613

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I promise not to argue against you, and certainly not to slur you. Please argue! And thank you for not slurring :) > Would you be willing to articulate your argument for Trump here? I supported Obama. I always considered myself a liberal. I support gay marriage, I support gun control. I support universal health care. I support decent welfare and a safety net. As a programmer, the formative moment for my Trump suppo…

Would I be way off in saying you're voting against the left more than you are voting for the right, then?

I think the right has changed. 10 years ago it was all anti-abortion, anti gay marriage, super religious, anti-healthcare.

I always use to say "I could never vote for the Republicans because of this".

So I support most the left-wing policies. But mostly it is a vote against the progressive movement, and the Bernie faction. And corruption is the ultimate destructive force in politics and the Clinton's oozed it.

I think that the more time that passes since the hey days of communism, people forget how terrible it was, and we start heading back towards it.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#675

Post by 59nadir »

masondixon wrote: post #674
59nadir wrote: post #656

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would I be way off in saying you're voting against the left more than you are voting for the right, then?

I think the right has changed. 10 years ago it was all anti-abortion, anti gay marriage, super religious, anti-healthcare. I always use to say "I could never vote for the Republicans because of this". So I support most the left-wing policies. But mostly it is a vote against the progressive movement, and the Bernie faction. And corruption is the ultimate destructive force in politics and the Clinton's oozed it. I thin…

What do you think characterizes the Bernie faction?

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#676

Post by thecopy »

BurningFrog wrote: post #669

Relevant column: "I don't see a moral obligation for anyone to serve in a Trump administration. But people who opposed Donald Trump, on both the left and right, should commit right now to one thing: We will not tar good people for joining the Trump administration. Their motives will not be questioned, and if things do turn out as some of his critics fear, the people in his foreign and domestic policy apparatus will n…

>He has built no ideological framework for future policies

Sounds like a positive thing

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#677

Post by peterclary »

pmorici wrote: post #467
billiam wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here, this guy. Thiel isn't qualified. He knows nothing about running a real business, just investing in them. He knows nothing about economic policy. And clearly he knows nothing about governance.

What evidence do you have that that is true? Looking at his career experience on Wikipedia suggests the exact opposite. Not to mention it's a win for LGBT causes which he is known to be a supporter of.

It's a win for LGBT causes to ally himself with somebody who believes in Conversion Therapy?

[Edit: I meant Trump, and I was wrong - see below. Technically Thiel is also allied with Pence, who does believe in Conversion Therapy, but that wasn't who I meant. I apologise]

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#678

Post by jtcond13 »

BurningFrog wrote: post #669

Relevant column: "I don't see a moral obligation for anyone to serve in a Trump administration. But people who opposed Donald Trump, on both the left and right, should commit right now to one thing: We will not tar good people for joining the Trump administration. Their motives will not be questioned, and if things do turn out as some of his critics fear, the people in his foreign and domestic policy apparatus will n…

Setting aside the implication that Thiel is "good people", this is totally wrong. They will suffer guilt by association in a quite literal way:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_Seven

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#679

Post by return0 »

tkxxx7 wrote: post #629
tdkl wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People listen up until the point you prove to them you're not worth listening to. And they decide that based on emotions, which marks them as not being capable of rational discussions.

That could easily be a rational decision.

> And they decide that based on emotions

No it could not. What you just said defies reason.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#680

Post by pg314 »

adolph wrote: post #633
pg314 wrote: post #593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since he never released his taxes we have no idea about his financial situation. We have no clear idea who he owns what to. After a string of business debacles his US financing sources all but dried up. He definitely owes money to Deutsche Bank. (It's going to be fun when he will have to negotiate their 14 billion fine.) It is likely that he owes money to Russian banks. He also owns real estate across the world. I wo…

The balance of financial and socio-political arrangements are an interesting topic. At what point is a debt large enough for the lender to exert influence over the borrower and what point it is so great that the lender is totally invested in the borrowers success?

The borrower's (Trump's) success is not necessarily aligned with the nation's success. This is exactly why it represents a potential conflict of interests.

E.g. Trump can halve DB's fine in return for future loans. Win-win for both of them, a loss for the US.

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