AI is removing the middle class of software engineering? • Hacker News Board

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#661

Post by codexon » Thu, Aug 13, 2026, 1:08 AM UTC

johnnyanmac wrote: post #660

codexon wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing wrong with vibe coding as long as the quality is good.

>as long as the quality is good. Well that's where we're seemingly at an impasse, no? I don't even like the term "good vibecoding". The term was implied as a means to just let the computer type its own code and "go with the vibes". i.e. you have no deeper idea on how it works underneath. Now, AI-assisted coding? It can be good. It can be a rush job. But the idea is that LLM's are in the passenger's seat, not the dive…

The output is indistinguishable from manually written code.

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#662

Post by Joel_Mckay » Thu, Aug 13, 2026, 1:09 AM UTC

KronisLV wrote: post #427

> But once you start storing data there, you can't just remove them. You have to come up with a migration plan, make sure you don't disrupt the system because people are paying to use this every day. You have to think about what you'll do if the migration fails. Make sure you don't end up with orphaned foreign keys. It's just so much harder to fix. Even with the best model you can get. Migration plan? Just ask Claude…

Bad workmanship writes bad code in any language. Typically the "easier" the compiler is to use... the more complex the failure mode.

This list of rules applies to most languages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_10:_Rules_for_Dev...

A bit of history where these rules came from, and why they matter.

"Why Fighter Jets Ban 90% of C++ Features" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv4sDL9Ljww

The basis of the cited 10 rules helped form many standards for reliable code: https://www.stroustrup.com/JSF-AV-rules.pdf

"Reflections on trusting trust" (Ken Thompson, 1984) https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/358198.358210

For example, two pages of hyperbole when a single line will do is very LLM. =3

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#663

Post by selcuka » Thu, Aug 13, 2026, 1:12 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #538

bdangubic wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Such test filter out the obvious frauds. if you need garbage like leetcode to filter out "obvious frauds" you got a whole lot of problems in your company/team/...

A colleague of mine came to me for advice. He wanted one of those high dollar jobs at a well-known MegaCorp. He knew a leetcode test was used by them. I suggested that his top priority was to study the leetcode books for the next 3 weeks. I told him those three weeks would be the best ROI he'd ever make. He did so. He aced the test. He got the job with a huge offer. He agreed that the ROI was out of the park! P.S. I'…

I'm confused. Your example contradicts your point. How is it a good filter for fraud if it can be aced by only studying for 3 weeks?

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#664

Post by Joel_Mckay » Thu, Aug 13, 2026, 1:13 AM UTC

gfhhnki wrote: post #11

jqpabc123 wrote: post #3

In the words of Admiral Ackbar, "It's a trap". Any apparent short term gain is really a prescription for long term pain. Ignore what AI fanboys say and instead look at what they do. https://northeasttimes.com/2026/08/07/oracle-bans-ai-code-fr...

Just look at how they bragged for a year now about how AI built entire apps with a single prompt. And now that code is being watermarked by AI, suddenly they’re artists, painstakingly prompting, crafting, to get just the right code; the watermark is unethical even! AI psychosis is real, and even some of the smartest people I know how succumbed to it.

Cult dogma is hilarious, and stop kink-shaming peoples cognitive dildo.

The LLM companies have already stolen everything, and the issue is now self-correcting. =3

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#665

Post by win311fwg » Thu, Aug 13, 2026, 1:13 AM UTC

bluefirebrand wrote: post #549

win311fwg wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "they have been abused by AGILE [...]" That's ironic given that some of the Agile Manifesto signatories are some of the biggest proponents of constraint-based development. While the Principles behind the Agile Manifesto is not prescriptive, I am not certain you could, in practice, even satisfy many of the principles without constraint-based development. > I also don't personally like engineering based on constraint…

> someone who constructs a building by applying judgment, experience, and craftsmanship as they go would be considered an artisan, craftsman, or something to that effect rather than an engineer. That seems closer to the world you like to live in Yes absolutely. I don't call myself an engineer, I'm a developer. Software Engineer is a title that my jobs give me, but I'm rarely given the time or resources to do any engi…

> I'm rarely given the time or resources to do any engineering.

Are you sure it is that you are not given the time rather than your artisan ways consumes your time 'unnecessary'?

Failure in (most) software isn't going to harm anyone, so there isn't much technical need for engineering in software. As I am sure you can attest, artisans are fully capable of delivering great software. Some of the best software out there was created by artisans!

The software industry is headed towards engineering anyway because engineers can build software faster, which is considered a virtue in business. That was true even before LLMs, but has become especially pronounced in this next era.

> It has become very clear to me over the years that I would much rather be an artisan than an engineer though.

Understandable. I suspect a lot of engineers would rather be artisans—not just in software but in general. Artisans get to run at the forefront of new technologies and ideas before rigour is able to be established so it is, on balance, naturally more exciting.

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#666

Post by skydhash » Thu, Aug 13, 2026, 1:14 AM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #614

arcboii92 wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've said "code was always the easy part" recently so I should probably explain where I'm coming from. I think the practice of software engineering includes that "understanding of the relationship between code, business, people and teams" you mention, which essentially boils down to the ability to skillfully design a system - regardless of whether it's a big cloud-based web application or a tiny cli tool for use with…

Sure, I'm not saying design is easy either, but even if you have detailed user requirements, a fully spec'ed out UI, and some general technical requirements, translating that to (working) code is still really, really difficult. I used to do a lot of interviews in my previous career, and I can't tell you the number of times I'd be interviewing someone who could talk a good game, but the second it got to writing code,…

> Last side note, when this topic comes up I feel some folks are really biking it down to the absurd "typing was never the hard part

Compared to the other parts. If you can do the problem solving part and the design part,code is easy. If you can't write code, I strongly doubt your ability to do the first two.

People talking good game always try to keep it high level and full of jargon. Once you ask them to explain part of the design, you'll see the inconsistency and holes of what they are saying very easily.

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#667

Post by Joel_Mckay » Thu, Aug 13, 2026, 1:16 AM UTC

Oras wrote: post #420

Agree with the article, but good luck convincing upper management about it. “If it works, don’t fix it” until it doesn’t and we shall see a new wave of software hiring in a year or two. Every enterprise is talking about AI Transformation, and that great with the right expectations. But those who think AI will just make platforms quick with less people and least experienced engineers, will have to prepare for the dein…

Cult dogma is hilarious...

The LLM companies have already stolen everything, and the issue is now self-correcting. =3

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#668

Post by Animats » Thu, Aug 13, 2026, 1:17 AM UTC

Syntaf wrote: post #35

> bad engineers were always a liability This part of the article hits home for me. With AI, "bad" engineers can now amplify their "bad" engineering x10 across the organization. The most egregious of these cases for me is often long tenured engineers who have lost interest in the craft, creating a dangerous combination of having enough merit to ship but not enough interest to make what they ship _good_. I am still a f…

Why is there no transcript for that video?

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#669

Post by Joel_Mckay » Thu, Aug 13, 2026, 1:18 AM UTC

thraway3837 wrote: post #377

Interesting article, and it makes a lot of salient points. I think I can agree with most of it while also arguing that I don't think good code has ever had an honest measurement of quality. From an end user perspective, the end product either works or doesn't. Working terribly is the same thing as doesn't work and working well is the same as works. What AI changes is the actual code part. The actual code lines output…

> I don't think good code has ever had an honest measurement of quality.

Bad workmanship writes bad code in any language. Typically the "easier" the compiler is to use... the more complex the failure mode. =3

This list of rules applies to most languages: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_10:_Rules_for_Dev...

A bit of history where these rules came from, and why they matter. =3

"Why Fighter Jets Ban 90% of C++ Features" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv4sDL9Ljww

The basis of the cited 10 rules helped form many standards for reliable code: https://www.stroustrup.com/JSF-AV-rules.pdf

"Reflections on trusting trust" (Ken Thompson, 1984) https://dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/358198.358210

Re: AI is removing the middle class of software engineering?

#670

Post by nocman » Thu, Aug 13, 2026, 1:25 AM UTC

timr wrote: post #605

WalterBright wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He went in for a monitored taking of the test.

Sure, sure. So now we have the worst of all possible worlds: an expensive interview process where the candidate has to be onsite, and a stupid evaluation mechanism that doesn't at all reflect real-world job requirements. And in exchange for the inconvenience of an in-person interview, the candidate gets treated like a number and is met with a stupid memorization gauntlet that tests a skill that quite literally will n…

> an expensive interview process where the candidate has to be onsite

I'm sorry, but if I'm doing the hiring, the person who isn't willing to come on site to do an interview will be one of the first people off the list to hire (I mean, unless it is a remote job, and the person is nowhere near the employer, obvious exceptions would apply).

In-person interviewing can be extremely valuable. Will it filter out every bad candidate? No, some people excel at faking it. However it can be a big help in finding a good candidate.