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When AI Builds Itself: Our progress toward recursive self-improvement

anthropic.com

661–670 of 738 posts

Re: When AI Builds Itself: Our progress toward recursive self-improvement

#661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

comfortable ergonomics? you can't scroll up more than 50 lines before it starts to garble up text i'd be ashamed of publishing software with this level of polish as a solo dev, let alone as the hottest multibillion startup on the planet

Hmm I thought this was due to me using tmux with claude-code, also it seems that `claude agents` doesn't have this issue. By comfortable ergonomics, meant the forgiving and asynchronous input system. You can start typing, cancel, retry with previous input, accumulate messages while the agent is active. I don't know all TUIs but this is not common IMO. Other than that I agree with you.

> You can start typing, cancel, retry with previous input, accumulate messages while the agent is active. I don't know all TUIs but this is not common IMO.

Literally every audio player or anything that uses threads.

Re: When AI Builds Itself: Our progress toward recursive self-improvement

#662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of immediate-mode rendering is quite standard for TUIs. Although immediate-mode rendering tends to be significantly simpler and use less memory than retained-mode rendering, at the cost of some redundant computation. So I am not sure if this is the reason for the bloat. It’s possible that it doesn’t play well with JS garbage collection, since it recreates the whole UI structure for every frame (which tends…

I haven't tried to make a TUI admittedly, but double buffering is the oldest technique on the planet. A TUI doesn't even need to pay the cost of a lot of pixels since its effective resolution is much lower

Long long time ago, I used to do some graphics stuff in 320x240, which uses a whopping 64KB per buffer, and still has more resolution than a terminal.

In 1GB I could probably fit all the buffers to double-buffer all the TUIs in a whole country. Well, maybe not. But it's likely not that far off.

Re: When AI Builds Itself: Our progress toward recursive self-improvement

#663
post #644
post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, if you don't want to start a war? You can tell what kind of discussion this is by the fact that this question has to be asked.

That's why we need and have diplomacy. Everyone is aware that violence is the ultimate option if an actor thinks there's an existential threat to deal with. If the consensus becomes that a 50+TFlops datacenter in the wrong hands is as dangerous as a uranium enrichment plant, we'll likely move towards treaties and coercion. "Wrong" is obviously subjective here...

50+TFlops is nothing, I got that in my MacBook, but besides that, when, a few years/decades from now, whatever arbitrary compute limit we think prevents Armageddon comes down to enthusiast and consumer level, what then? This isn’t Uranium, compute is not a physical resource.

This is the “SGI” regulation issue I never read a reasonable answer to, if one believes this is possible and should be prevented then either that means they want to restrict every computing system sold from here on out to some arbitrary metric (and somehow prevent users from just creating clusters to get around such a compute restriction) or what?

If compute alone directly leads to “SGI” or whatever, then we might as well put paper bags on our heads and lie down in some English pub.

Not to mention, if one really wanted to cause harm, training a current day LLM and using it for Stuxnet-esque attacks is reasonably possible long before any arbitrary compute limit we might introduce now, no machine God needed to cause major harm.

That’s why I prefer advocacy for LLM regs that focus on current day impact. Mental health concerns, training data licensing questions and the like. There I can formulated reasonable regulation that can hold. For “SGI”, I do not know anyone who actually has done that and I have looked hard. That’s why I consider these things more distraction from actually necessary and possible regulation that just draws attention via a flashy doomsday scenario.

Occasionally, I will click on one of the AI Doomsday Youtube videos recommended to me. And far more often then not, these will posit that "SGI" requires only compute and will inevitably cause devastation. Fair enough, I still think we should put a bit more focus on e.g. LLM induced psychosis, the labs rarely compensating those whose training data they used, etc. but if it is their opinion that "SGI" is possible, I can get why they'd ignore such concerns. But at the end, they never state how to regulate or prevent this, they more often then not have a call to action ("If you want to prevent this...") linking to a website where we can actually read about how they think we should deal with this. Inevitably, I click on said site, finding it to for one be an Effective Altruism aligned project and B always just contain some blabla about "aligning AI training with human values", which is absolutely meaningless nonsense, not least after having watched a video in which someone spends 15 minutes espousing that "we could never fully control "SGI"".

Makes all these feel more like industry efforts to stave of necessary regulation and not actually serious, but if one can formulate how to regulate “SGI” that isn't laughable, nonsense or both, I am not opposed, I just don’t think that person exists…

Re: When AI Builds Itself: Our progress toward recursive self-improvement

#664

All this singularity trajectory is really interesting. If they manage to build a model that is capable of building the next version of Claude (model and tooling) - wouldn't it be their interest at some point to keep it to themselves? If we ever get to a point where the centaur period is over (when human + AI is not better than just AI) then what competitive advantage ANY human can have other than - the money they alr…

Check out https://ai-2027.com/

Thanks! Gloomy yet important read.

Re: When AI Builds Itself: Our progress toward recursive self-improvement

#665
post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speed isn't really a big deal for me. I want good quality code. It's already able to generate code 10-100X as fast as I could code it myself. Anyway, are you speaking of the harness? The harness on mine isn't AI, so speed just isn't an issue.

> Generated in 0.008s • 14,293 tok/s Chat Jimmy runs ~300X faster than the ~50 tok/s you are used to. What could you do differently when you are able to generate code 3,000 - 30,000X as fast as you could code it yourself? What if it was all good quality code? What would you do differently if it were 100,000X faster? mtok/s? gtok/s?

refine that to: what if your harness grew to encompass a larger, slower model and adapted to both the model and the project. thats where i expect the harness to go.

use the big models to code an adaptive small model. train it to use and build tools. give it a standard temple language for any project and bake it into a chip.

right now, LLMs are great because they dont need much data pruning, but once they break through to the functional components, the first thing to do is train a well scoped harness builder.

Re: When AI Builds Itself: Our progress toward recursive self-improvement

#666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm I thought this was due to me using tmux with claude-code, also it seems that `claude agents` doesn't have this issue. By comfortable ergonomics, meant the forgiving and asynchronous input system. You can start typing, cancel, retry with previous input, accumulate messages while the agent is active. I don't know all TUIs but this is not common IMO. Other than that I agree with you.

> You can start typing, cancel, retry with previous input, accumulate messages while the agent is active. I don't know all TUIs but this is not common IMO. Literally every audio player or anything that uses threads.

good point, i didn't classify tui audio players in a way, they don't converse, they allow asynchronous effects and stacking, that said i might be lagging about these, last i used was mocp, any names i should check out ?

Re: When AI Builds Itself: Our progress toward recursive self-improvement

#669

Wouldn't self-improvement mean that the LLM changes its neural network (i.e. the weights or layers or back propagation algorithm etc) or modify its training data?

If it's actively building the next generation of itself, I'd say that counts. It's more like a parent raising their kid well than it is like a parent modifying their own mind, but the result is still that you have a better model in a year than you do now.

Re: When AI Builds Itself: Our progress toward recursive self-improvement

#670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. Just this week an engineer who seems to purely vibe everything submitted a +700ish LoC fix for what seemed like a pretty simple issue. Moreover it was a perf issue, which in my experience is not usually best fixed by adding more stuff. Today, I merged my fix, net -381 LoC. I'm using them too of course, they read and type and hunt for bugs and test faster than I can. But I'm using them as my tool, not be…

> But I'm using them as my tool, not being a tool using them. Keep believing that

Do you find it impossible to use LLMs productively without giving over your brain wholesale to them?
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