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Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

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Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#661
post #502
post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you turned out fine. But the school district can't put a bunch of kids on IRC, it'll look bad.

I wouldn't put any kids through some of the stuff I've seen on IRC

It is pretty harsh when the whole channel uses a text changer script to write upside down. Especially with modern computing... if the remaining person does flip their chromebook so they can see it it might auto rotate and everything is still upside down.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is interesting news to me, thank you. I'm curious if the per-pupil spending includes locally raised funds; the reality in California is that the state level funding is poor, and districts that are above some threshold don't get enough funding to operate. So public schools function as local charities and inevitably have fundraising arms to make up the shortfall. This has been true since at least the 1980s when I…

> the reality in California is that the state level funding is poor No, it really isn't. Again, just mandated Prop 98 state spending on K-12 is $127.1B for next year, with this year's enrollment at just about 5.8 million students. That works out to $21k per pupil not including all discretionary state spending, federal spending, and other local funding (like the fundraising you're talking about). > districts that are…

Well I live in a basic aid district; Bay Area but firmly middle class. We’re just above the cutoff for federally subsidized school lunches iirc, and the schools are chronically short on money.

Part of it is declining enrollment, part of it is Baumol’s cost disease (a living wage is pretty high here! Teachers get paid well on a national scale and very poorly on a local scale).

But yeah… education is simply not well-run in California. I find that pretty indisputable.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#663
post #32

"The surge in math deficiencies after dropping the SAT highlights a systemic issue: grade inflation. Without a standardized baseline like the SAT/ACT, a 4.0 GPA from a high school with relaxed standards looks identical to a 4.0 from a highly rigorous one. Paradoxically, removing test requirements harms underprivileged students the most. Preparing for the SAT requires a book and an internet connection. In contrast, bu…

And SAT as high school math exam itself I think is way too easy. They should design another test which can clearly distinguish top 1% or even 0.1%.from others

> They should design another test

Why? What would the point of this be beyond bragging rights?

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#664

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The processes for delivering remedial classes no longer work at the scale required. UC San Diego published a detailed report of what's happening at their campus ( https://senate.ucsd.edu/media/740347/sawg-report-on-admissio... ): their remedial math placement grew from 32 students in 2020 to 921 students in 2025, 665 of whom placed into an extra-remedial course covering grade 1-8 math which had not previously been ne…

It seems like the current situation means that processes need to change in a major way somewhere (maybe everywhere) but this report (and the letter) seem to be focused on doing as little as possible to get their part of the system back to the way it was. With this many students it seems like larger structural changes like a remedial year should be considered or else quickly redesign the system in other ways like redu…

California's community college system is designed to provide the "remedial year" you propose, and this is a well-known pathway among California high school students and admissions counselors. If a high school graduate wants postsecondary education but isn't quite ready for a rigorous college curriculum, they sign up for the local community college. If they do very well, the CSUs and UCs accept and encourage transfer applications; if they find it's still not for them, then they take the associate degree and move on.

Freshman admissions at UC San Diego are for a different group. They have a 28% acceptance rate, not the most selective in the country but far from taking anyone with a pulse. The admissions office intends to reject people who doesn't know how to do basic math, letting them know that this isn't the right pathway for them, but they're not able to do that reliably without standardized tests.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is interesting news to me, thank you. I'm curious if the per-pupil spending includes locally raised funds; the reality in California is that the state level funding is poor, and districts that are above some threshold don't get enough funding to operate. So public schools function as local charities and inevitably have fundraising arms to make up the shortfall. This has been true since at least the 1980s when I…

> the reality in California is that the state level funding is poor No, it really isn't. Again, just mandated Prop 98 state spending on K-12 is $127.1B for next year, with this year's enrollment at just about 5.8 million students. That works out to $21k per pupil not including all discretionary state spending, federal spending, and other local funding (like the fundraising you're talking about). > districts that are…

Your comment prompted to look into this further, thank you. The funding situation in California is complicated and weird, but yes, CA does spend a lot of money on public education.

There are weird relics of the underfunded past, but you can’t blame the educational failures on lack of budget.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I scored ~145 on a recent WAIS assessment (with low to average processing scores) and I could train most children to do the same if they started early enough. That's basically what my upper middle class parents did for me, as the tests were very similar to games I was given since a young age. Of course there are other more important developmental factors like health, stability, and nutrition but those are easier with…

This is laughable. Most children (sampled randomly from the United States) could absolutely not score 145 on a WAIS assessment. Your perception of the average children's intelligence is likely skewed by being surrounded by above average intelligence children (maybe in school). It's not eugenics to acknowledge the strong genetic factor of human intelligence.

Intelligence is strongly hereditary, I haven't seen proof of anything beyond that.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I scored ~145 on a recent WAIS assessment (with low to average processing scores) and I could train most children to do the same if they started early enough. That's basically what my upper middle class parents did for me, as the tests were very similar to games I was given since a young age. Of course there are other more important developmental factors like health, stability, and nutrition but those are easier with…

This is laughable. Most children (sampled randomly from the United States) could absolutely not score 145 on a WAIS assessment. Your perception of the average children's intelligence is likely skewed by being surrounded by above average intelligence children (maybe in school). It's not eugenics to acknowledge the strong genetic factor of human intelligence.

I attended and have worked in US public schools, so I have a very clear picture of why a lot of students are not performing well.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to be arguing with someone else.

No; I'm saying "just take practice exams" isn't what we're really talking about. They are merely a part of high-end test prep offerings.

I actually took fairly involved test prep way back when (and didn't end up actually writing the SAT) and there really wasn't anything to it beyond the practice exams that I couldn't have figured out myself.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#670

Is this really surprising to anyone? Especially the oldies? I remember decades ago when I started high school. We were all given laptops, but the teachers had a whole lecture on when to use laptops and for what. One thing that stuck with me was how one of the teachers pointed out that we should still take notes and do our homework on physical notebooks, this is because we learn better that way. Things stick to our me…

> I remember decades ago when I started high school. We were all given laptops

Decades, plural? Perhaps that could happen two decades ago, but I doubt much more than that. Three decades ago you were lucky if your school had a computer lab.

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