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Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

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Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#661

Post by fshafique »

emmelaich wrote: post #526
mothballed wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Constitution uses the following in regard to protest in the first amendment Congress shall make no law ... abridging ... the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. It uses this same "right of the people" in the second amendment ... the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. In both cases, the right is restricted to "the pe…

> "the right of the people peaceably to assemble" "Peaceably" is important. If you think the pro-Palestinian protests on campus are peaceful, try wearing a yarmulke and walking anywhere near them. Or anywhere on many campuses, on any day, protest on-going or not.

Search Google images for "yarmulke palestinian protest" and tell me there aren't many Jewish people fighting for a Free Palestine. Every pro-Palestine rally I've been to has had a contingent of Jewish groups in our midst. You'll only get hated on if you show or wave the Israeli flag.

Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#662

Post by laughing_man »

ap99 wrote: post #657
cycomanic wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No the government can't just revoke a visa because Trump doesn't like your face, the reasons must be based in law and there is the pesky thing called due process that needs to be followed. I am honestly flabbergasted that people think the government can just do willy billy.

Yes, a visa can be revoked just that easily. It's a guest pass. When getting a visa you're basically asked to agree to America's terms of service. Violations can be found pretty easily in the fine print if someone is really looking. From there it's the same administrative work to revoke and deport as it is to say ban someone from Twitch for saying the wrong thing.

They can revoke your visa for supporting terrorist organizations. And they make the list of terrorist organizations, so...

Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#663

Post by Gareth321 »

thuridas wrote: post #625
Jimmc414 wrote: post #479

The First Amendment applies to everyone on US soil, not just citizens. That’s settled law. The government can revoke visas for legitimate immigration violations, but it’s not allowed to use immigration machinery as a pretext to punish political expression. That’s exactly what they are doing. It looks like the courts will eventually put an end to this [0] but it won’t reverse the damage that’s already been done. I’m g…

Does this administration care to much about the law? A judge can rule something but they mostly keep doing the same thing. Not to mention the supreme court that is willing to let this happen.

> Does this administration care to much about the law?

As a European my opinion of Trump could not be any lower, but it is my understanding that they have complied with all court orders to date (with some being contested all the way to the Supreme Court). They are certainly testing the authority limits of various courts and congressional processes, but they have complied with all legal processes to date.

Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#664

Post by ap99 »

keithnz wrote: post #443

weird everyone's focusing on privacy and google.... Not the actual insanity of a government targeting people who are legally allowed to be in the US. You can try to find a way to keep things private, and many of the people on HN likely have the capability to do so. But hiding from your government because they are weaponizing your information against you seems to be the wrong approach. I just don't understand the Amer…

How is this insane?

The US isn't some global free zone where everyone has a right to come and go - do as they please.

If you came to the US legally with a visa. Great. When you signed your visa documents there were some questions they asked you and some fine print that basically made you liable for "bad behavior."

I'm an American living in the UK and I'm under no illusion that if I start doing dumb stuff here it's possible they tell me to leave. (Tho apparently the UK government has a pretty lax attitude with who they ask to leave.)

If someone wants to come to my country and behave in any way outside their best - then yes I support the government kicking them out.

Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#666

Post by Gareth321 »

impossiblefork wrote: post #605
orochimaaru wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the government need a reason to revoke a persons visa? First amendment or not, that is the real question. If no reason is needed then whether the first amendment applies or not is moot. There seems to be broad discretion that the government has in revoking visas.

Think like this: in the US you can fire someone for almost any reason, except if it's one of certain forbidden reasons. Similarly, the US government can revoke someone's visa, but they can't revoke someone's visa because of speech protected by the first amendment.

This makes sense but then the outcome of this is all theatrical. What will happen in future is that people have their visas revoked without any comments or reason given. There is no legal requirement to list a reason. It will end up the same as employment law, where people can discriminate and break the law as long as they don't tell the applicant they are doing so.

Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#667

Post by laughing_man »

rootusrootus wrote: post #491
Jimmc414 wrote: post #479

The First Amendment applies to everyone on US soil, not just citizens. That’s settled law. The government can revoke visas for legitimate immigration violations, but it’s not allowed to use immigration machinery as a pretext to punish political expression. That’s exactly what they are doing. It looks like the courts will eventually put an end to this [0] but it won’t reverse the damage that’s already been done. I’m g…

> administrative subpoenas frequently include non disclosure orders Which Google definitely knows are not enforceable.

When you're a huge company trying to do business in the US (or any country, for that matter) you have to think very, very carefully before you make an enemy of the government. Google could refuse to go along with this stuff and find itself the subject of a big, expensive anti-trust probe.

Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#668

Post by ap99 »

keithnz wrote: post #453
lmm wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it a right he had in the first place? Many countries make it illegal for foreigners to undertake political activities as a condition of their visa, for good reason.

the problem is, technically yes, they have a right, but their visa can be arbitrarily cancelled for very unspecified reasons, like the government not liking what you are doing and calling a potential security risk. This targeting of people, because they can, amazes me that Americans are so accepting of it. To me this says they'd do this to their citizens if they could. You already have the attack on birth right citiz…

I'm amazed that people see America as different from any other country in terms of who should be allowed in and what constitutes bad behavior.

Being in America is a privilege that can easily be taken away. Guests of America should walk a narrow path.

Same as being in any other country.

Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#669

Post by StanislavPetrov »

darthwalsh wrote: post #537
StanislavPetrov wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't think "both sides" works very well when one side has been supporting the murder of citizens for exercising their free speech Obama was murdering US citizens for exercising their free speech, and their children, more than a decade ago. >But of the options currently available, one is much less bad than the other. If one person says they are going to stab 99 people and the other person says they are going to st…

So in the trolley problem, you would abstain from supporting either side? I think that's actually a choice of supporting the status quo.

You are entitled to your opinion that I'm supporting the status quo by refusing to support the abject murder and depravity of one group of people over another, who may be slightly less murderous and depraved, and I'm entitled to my opinion that you are complicit in the the murder and depravity of the people you support.

Re: Google broke its promise to me – now ICE has my data

#670

Post by herewulf »

Terr_ wrote: post #646
Terr_ wrote: post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you're trying to shift the legal goalposts of "peaceful" into something more like "inoffensive" or "respectful" or "polite". For example, you have a First Amendment right to "peacefully" hurl the most awful insults you can think of at a police officer. If that police officer feels "antagonized"--or even if your goal was to hurt their feelings--that does not permit them to abuse the special power of the…

P.S.: Supposing you went beyond rude, like violating a noise-ordinance with a megaphone, or "littering" with pamphlets, or trespassing to chain yourself to a tree... The First Amendment bars authorities from going: "Ah hah! Now I can sneak in some punches for that shit you said earlier!" No, that's simply not allowed to be part of it. There is no crime where "saying stuff that pissed the policeman off" is an enhancin…

While the rest of your comment is sound, the police do not make "big bucks" by any stretch of the imagination and there's a serious citation needed for the job being less dangerous than the ones you listed. I am pretty sure I have never read multiple news articles like "landscaper shot while sitting in vehicle filling paperwork" or "armed man commits suicide by bartender".

I have numerous friends and acquaintances in this career field. Policing is a dangerous job, just not for everyone all the time on the whole. The barrier to entry is low and highly competitive but the selection process is a suboptimal filter. The pay isn't great compared to so many other things, but it's similar to the military in that qualified people show up and get trained to do the job which leads to an entire career, just without all the big downsides of military life. All these things combined is why bad apples can get into positions of authority and commit abuses.

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