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Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

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Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#661
I can see that majority of response is negative, being mobile developer myself I can understand.

What's the solution for 3rd world countries where 80% phones are android (and usually old/low spec) that balances freedom for knowledgeable users vs security/safety for the majority of users? you can roughly understand education level and tech literacy for the majority of people in 3rd world countries.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#662

I can see that majority of response is negative, being mobile developer myself I can understand. What's the solution for 3rd world countries where 80% phones are android (and usually old/low spec) that balances freedom for knowledgeable users vs security/safety for the majority of users? you can roughly understand education level and tech literacy for the majority of people in 3rd world countries.

I had a taxi driver ask me for help with their Android phone after their kid did something and now their phone kept getting ads every 5 minutes in every app no matter what they were doing

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.' - Benjamin Franklin

'essential' means can't be bothered to wait 24 hours (once)?

Stockholm syndrome is so pity when detected.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#664
post #652
post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's OK. This is the dying, last gasp effort that a company makes when it has no way to innovate, no way to add any real value, no capacity to drive change internally, and has become completely non-user focused. In short, it's what companies like IBM and Broadcom are now. Shallow husks of their former self, mere holding companies for patents, with a complete lack of care and concern about any end-user retention. Goog…

>Look at Microsoft of old, the god of arrogance. Once the most dominant, powerful tech company in the world. They were king. Browser king. OS king. Everything king. Now they are barely noticed by large swaths of the market. Have they ever been more valuable than now?

I think it’s more about how they are perceived. They’re making a lot of money somehow, but they have been losing desktop OS marketshare for at least 15 years, they completely missed mobile, Xbox seems to be failing, they completely gave up on the browser and just threw a skin on Chrome. They have O365 in the enterprise, sure, but that was a market they once owned… now they share it with Google Docs and a host of others. They had to shove Linux into Windows just to get developers to stick around. They had the PC gaming market on lockdown, but Valve is coming for them with all their Linux based efforts… we have PewDiePie as an Arch user now. How bad does Microsoft need to screw up to push someone all the way to Arch? All their consumer facing products seem to be trending down.

Everyone loves to talk about FAANG… there is no M, why not? One would think Microsoft would belong more in that collection than Netflix, yet here we are.

In terms of technology and looking forward, what is Microsoft doing really right? Even their investment in AI seems questionable and they pushed it into their products so hard that everyone hates it. They have GitHub and VS Code, but that was an acquisition and people are always nervous, because they don’t really trust Microsoft based on their track record. Azure is fairly popular, but AWS is still the benchmark everyone talks about. There is their enterprise management software… that helped take Styker completely down last week (maybe not totally Microsoft’s fault and more the admin, but that’s still some really bad press). Did I forget something big?

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the parent or agreeing/disagreeing with them, but to your question: if you get creative, there are a lot of things you could do, some more unorthodox than others. Tongue-in-cheek example, just to get the point across: instead of calling it Developer Mode, call it "Scam mode (dangerous)". Require pressing a button that says "Someone might be scamming me right now." Then require the user to type (not paste) in a lo…

The people falling for social engineering now won't be protected by this either. You could gate the functionality behind verification of an anti-scam awareness and education training and certification course, scammers would coach people through the entire course and the verification step, and people would still be victimized.

> You could gate the functionality behind verification of an anti-scam awareness and education training and certification course, scammers would coach people through the entire course and the verification step, and people would still be victimized.

The problem with this line of reasoning is that it proves too much, which really gets to the heart of the issue.

If people are willing to be led to the slaughterhouse in a blindfold then it's not just installing third party code which is a problem. You can't allow them to use the official bank app on an approved device to transfer money because a scammer could convince them to do it (and then string them along until the dispute window is closed). You can't allow them to read their own email or SMS or they'll give the scammer the code. If the user is willing to follow malicious instructions then the attacker doesn't need the device to be running malicious code. Those users can't be saved by the thing that purportedly exists only to save them.

Whereas if you can expect them to think for two seconds before doing something, what's wrong with letting them make their own choices about what to install?

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#666

This is going to hurt legitimate sideloading way more than actually necessary to reduce scams: - Must enable developer mode -- some apps (e.g., banking apps) will refuse to operate and such when developer mode is on, and so if you depend on such apps, I guess you just can't sideload? - One-day (day!!!) waiting period to activate (one-time) -- the vast majority of people who need to sideload something will probably no…

>- Must enable developer mode -- some apps (e.g., banking apps) will refuse to operate and such when developer mode is on, and so if you depend on such apps, I guess you just can't sideload? Hi, I'm the community engagement manager @ Android. It's my understanding that you don't have to keep developer options enabled after you enable the advanced flow. Once you make the change on your device, it's enabled. If you tur…

I don't want to install via ADB at all. This is MY phone.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#667

Judging by the comments sideloading plays a major part in everyone's life. What apps do you sideload guys? Why those apps are not in a store?

I _install_ apps through F-Droid, because on average, they are much less user-hostile. Less tracking, less accounts, less shenanigans. Built for usefulness rather than profit extraction. Which apps it shows is also 0% influenced by ads and other commercial value, whereas on Google's store, it's the opposite as it's the biggest factor.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#668
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by impossible in this case? Can't you just have the coin-operated parking meters back? Where I live, in EU, parking meters even take cards. EDIT: I guess "just" is doing some heavy-lifting, so I won't argue this further, but "impossible" isn't the word I would use either. The city could revert this decision, definitely if enough people wanted them to (that's... I know, the hardest part). I just agree…

> Where I live, in EU, parking meters even take cards. Unfortunately, a more accurate way of putting it is: stuff takes cards in lieu of coins . Like, where I live (also EU), ticket machines in buses and trams have gradually been upgraded over the past decade to accept cards, and then to accept only cards. It's a ratchet. Hidden inflation striking again. Cashless is cheaper to maintain than cash-enabled, so it preten…

a few years ago the vending machines in my office building started accepting credit and debit cards for an extra fee of $0.35 per transaction. just recently they stopped accepting bills and coins leaving cards as the only option, but are still charging the extra fee.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#669
This is great news for my wife and my parents, but it would really be nice to have the choice when it comes to my phone's OS. Just like I had with Linux. I boggles my mind how the components in a phone are somehow different to the components in a PC in that they are unaccessible to people who write drivers for them.

Re: Google details new 24-hour process to sideload unverified Android apps

#670

Welp, I guess my current Android phone will be my last one. At least half of the apps I use on a daily basis come from f-droid. This enforced 24-hour wait is simply not acceptable. Android has always been a far inferior overall user experience compared to iPhone. Android's _only_ saving grace was that I could put my own third-party open-source apps on it. There is nothing left keeping me on Android now. I'll probably…

If it helps, the 24-hour wait is a one-time process. You do it once, click the toggle to allow installing unregistered apps indefinitely, and then install whatever you want. You can even turn off developer options afterwards, per my understanding, and it won't impact your ability to install unregistered apps.

It does not help. This is friction imposed to reduce and eliminate sideloading in the name of safety.

I own my device, I choose the software running on it. Create friction points and I will chose another platform to execute my software.

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