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Afroman found not liable in defamation case

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Re: Afroman found not liable in defamation case

#661

Post by fc417fc802 »

VHRanger wrote: post #640
mothballed wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Ah, some egregious misuse of statistics! Murder is a byproduct of crime. Crime is, largely, downstream of economic conditions with some obvious caveats. New Hampshire has the 2nd lowest crime rate of the USA states. You could make the same argument for, say, Switzerland (high gun ownership but no crime/murder). But no one would be surprised if you had high gun ownership in Monaco. Similarly for the ethnic argument yo…

I don't think it's good to hold a misunderstand of the statistics against someone when (as in this case) they're so easy to read in a certain way.

> the reason y'all have a bunch of shootings is that you have a bunch of guns to do shootings with

Yet by your own admission poverty and inequality appear to account for the bulk of the effect.

Actually I think you'll find that plenty of Americans will acknowledge the link you point out. Just not in a politically charged exchange where the other party appears to have an ideological axe to grind. Where they'll likely disagree is the extent or significance of it. In many cases they will object that rights should never be curtailed for the purpose of lowering petty crime (I tend to agree).

I think it's also worth mentioning the statistic that legal gun owners (which is a wildly low bar in the US) have a lower rate of violent offense than the police.

Re: Afroman found not liable in defamation case

#662

Post by AngryData »

markdown wrote: post #636
qup wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can hardly make stricter gun laws; we have a right to them in this country. It's hard to limit the guns without infringing on the right of the people.

> You can hardly make stricter gun laws; we have a right to them in this country. It's hard to limit the guns without infringing on the right of the people. What an odd take. Gun rights weren't dictated by a burning bush. A group of 39 guys decided for everyone else that that right should exist a quarter of a millenium ago. A completely undemocratic system. Every citizen should have a say and if they will it, anythin…

I agree, but I also doubt you could get anywhere near the population needed to vote for strict gun control to start with. And if it was passed anyways I don't think enough people would accept it and give up their guns even if they had to hide or fight to keep them.

I personally don't trust the US government enough to willingly vote to give them a monopoly on violence even if I otherwise don't shoot guns very often.

Re: Afroman found not liable in defamation case

#663

Post by wnoise »

wl wrote: post #362
delfinom wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh? This falls under tort law for damages caused by the government.

The laws that provide a right of action against the government generally don’t cover damages caused by police in the lawful exercise of their duties. So yeah, sovereign immunity.

Even though you would think that'd be a taking for public use.

Re: Afroman found not liable in defamation case

#664

Post by cortesoft »

dogemaster2025 wrote: post #609
tverbeure wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The relevance is that you don’t need to assume that the knife wielding person can hit you from a distance. One way or the other, this doesn’t seem to be a problem in other countries.

[flagged]

Then you shouldn't be a police officer. We can't have a society where police shoot first and ask questions later just because they want to make sure there is zero risk to them.

Re: Afroman found not liable in defamation case

#665

Post by tialaramex »

watwut wrote: post #586
petesergeant wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean the key point there I think is the one where they point out that Brits simply wouldn’t accept police regularly shooting people. Policing for the people by the people.* * and pretend Northern Ireland doesn’t exist, or course

In Britain, there is independent civilian investigation when cops kill a person. It creates pressure to not kill, because you wont be judged by buddies.

Well, the IOPC (Independent Office for Police Conduct) has mandatory referrals, not only when police apparently shot somebody, or they die in police custody, or in a traffic accident with a police vehicle, but also cases where the police were recently involved. e.g. Sharon calls police because she says her husband punched her, when officers attend Sharon now says he didn't mean to and seems reluctant to leave or for her husband to be arrested, attending officers decide to leave it as it is, an hour later Sharon is dead and her husband is her presumed killer - that's a police involved death and so that gets referred to the IOPC even though nobody thinks a cop killed anybody.

However, the IOPC is not mandated to conduct investigations. So it is possible (though less likely for a shooting) that the IOPC will just kick it back to local police. It is also possible (and more likely) that they will oversee but use local police to do the actual work, just because that's much cheaper and their budget is limited.

Re: Afroman found not liable in defamation case

#666

Post by wnoise »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #544
dehrmann wrote: post #381

Defamation is the most boring version of this case. Barring dishonest editing, of course it's fine. There are hypothetical versions of this that get more interesting. Ohio is a one-party consent state. It's not clear what happens in a two-party consent state. Law enforcement has no expectation of privacy in public spaces. Private is "it depends," think cases where low enforcement is discussing something with one part…

> If he had used bodycam footage, then you get into interesting copyright laws Not that interesting. The US government cannot create copyrighted works. Works created by the government are public domain. This is why Ghidra (made by the NSA), for example, has a really odd license, where the parts written by the government are "not subject to U.S. copyright protections under 17 U.S.C.", whereas future contributions by t…

I knew that about the feds, but does it also apply to the states?

Re: Afroman found not liable in defamation case

#667

Post by parineum »

ceejayoz wrote: post #613
parineum wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's safe to assume you won't get in an accident. You _should_ buckle your seatbelt anyway because it's low effort, high reward in the unlikely case you get in an accident.

> It's safe to assume you won't get in an accident. If that were the case, I wouldn't need a seatbelt.

Indeed, your chances of needing a seatbelt for a particular car trip are very low but, over many trips, it becomes a safe assumption you'll be in an accident and, therefore, generally good policy to be prepared for that eventuality.

Re: Afroman found not liable in defamation case

#668

Post by lIl-IIIl »

jimt1234 wrote: post #397
bobsh wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It started after the Iraq war. They got Hummers and vets.

A childhood friend's dad was a cop for 25 years; retired in the mid-90s. He never shot his gun, and only unholstered once in his entire cop career. My friend followed his dad, also became a cop in the exact same district; he's getting ready to retire. He's unholstered his gun countless times. He says he's shot at numerous people in his career, and even killed one dude. I once asked him what the difference was between…

I find the noise complaint story hard to believe. Cops know what a "noise complaint" is.

This sounds like a generic urban legend "A friend of a friend told me".

If something like this happened, it would have to be in the news, right?

Re: Afroman found not liable in defamation case

#669

Post by Henchman21 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #137
NikolaNovak wrote: post #136

I have a potentially silly question, and obviously naive - but why so many drawn guns? Fun music videos aside, what was the background here? Were they coming in on a Massive gang fortress? Or are all the stereotypes of American police forces true and they just come guns a-blazing all the time? I mean, that wasn't even police officers with hand guns, they have army-like guys with massive automatic rifles, and they see…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rise_of_the_Warrior_Cop Watch the short clip in https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/rcgkis/u... - American cops get shown Scottish cops' deescalation procedures, and they scoff at it. "When you say preservation of life, it is… everybody's life. Ours has a pecking order. I'm just being honest."

That should be immediately disqualifying for an law enforcement officer. Saying that on the record should end their career immediately. Alas, we don't live in a just world and they will likely be continuously promoted.

Re: Afroman found not liable in defamation case

#670

Post by SapporoChris »

alsetmusic wrote: post #256
chneu wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American police are trained to be afraid. They escalate situations constantly. They're trained that every traffic stop is LIKELY their last. I've had a gun pulled on me twice for traffic stops when I went to grab something. I'm white.

> I've had a gun pulled on me twice for traffic stops when I went to grab something. I'm white. Something I learned from a friend is to ask permission for every movement or at the very least narrate and move slowly. "I'm going to reach in the glovebox for my registration. Is that ok?" I think it's the only way to protect yourself from their hyper-nervousness. Edit: friend and I are also white.

Some more recommendations. Keep your registration and insurance in an easily reachable place like in the passenger side visor/mirror. Keep your hands on the top of the steering wheel where the officer can see them at all times. Keep your car clean.

The goals are to make the officer comfortable and minimize the time.

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